Leo Zagami - Illuminati Whistleblower - Project Camelot Interview

Kerry Cassidy (KC): Hi, I’m Kerry Cassidy from Project Camelot. We’re here today with Leo Zagami and we’re going to be covering the Illuminati and their role on the world scene and exactly what their MO is, as well as their agenda. All right?

So, welcome Leo. And thank you very much for bringing us into your house. We’re very excited to be here with you here today and be able to get a picture of the kinds of things that you’ve been part of in the past, and maybe your vision as to where things might be going in the future as well.

Leo Zagami (LZ): My name is Leo Lyon Zagami. I am now 37, soon to be 38. I was born the 5th of March, 1970 from an English-Scottish mother and a Sicilian father, both of aristocratic origin. One represents the DiGregorio family of Sicily, which is an ancient aristocratic family connected to the sacred Roman Empire. While, instead, my mother is a Lyon family member of the Scottish Lyon family which is also the family of the Queen Mother of England, connected to the Queen.

So, basically, I was born within an aristocratic background. For that reason it was possible for me, from an early age, to enter what is the world of “the elite” and what you know as the Illuminati, that are still existing today in various forms and different disguises and this with different names. But mainly they work for a pyramid of power that ends up in Jerusalem and Rome and that represents both the Vatican and the Zionist establishment.

Today they are united to perform what they would like to be the New World Order, which is the result of their prophetic upbringing into this End-of-Time scenario in which they see the final result – the Kingdom of God.

Now, the Kingdom of God perceived by the Dark Illuminati, as they call them, because we also have Illuminati that are truly illuminated by God, and then we have the corrupt Illuminati, the evil forms of corruption that came into being and, at that point, to regain power, which they did, they unleashed a series of “Agents” around all the secret societies of the time and they also established or helped establish the Illuminati Order of Weishaupt, which saw within their members some very illustrious characters, like, for example, Napoleon, who was initiated himself by Cagliostro – Giuseppe Balsamo – when he was a younger lieutenant coming from Corsica.

And this changed the history of Europe because the great influence of the Jesuits upon, for example, Napoleon made sure that there was a clear revenge against what was perceived to be the enemies of the Vatican themself at that time. The Jesuits [unclear] waged a war towards their enemies inside the Vatican and this might have been also the Knights of Malta, I think that period with Napoleon lose, for example, that island – and their sovereignty on that island.

KC: OK, can you give me a definition of the Freemasons and how the Freemasons differ from the Illuminati?

LZ: The Freemasons come into being from a tradition which is both from the ancient craftsmen, they used to work within the churches, so the people who knew how to construct churches were the masons. They transmitted this craft and on top of that, the knowledge to build those churches was a sacred knowledge. That knowledge was given to them by the Knights Templars that were the ones who traveled far East and conquered the land of Jerusalem and made sure that for a long time the Vatican was in control of the Holy Land.

And so there is, basically, an ancient tradition that forms the Freemasons but it is a self-made, sometimes, tradition with a lot of legends that have been deliberately created to misguide people and manipulate them.

So then we have also the birth of the High Degrees of Freemasonry which are typical to what is known as the Scottish Rite system – for example, Cavalier Ramsay (a Knight) which represents the Stuart family which was a Scottish family that wanted to get onto the throne of England for a long period of time. But the Hanovarians had their best [Ed. note: got the better of them] and the Hanovarians created themselves their own form of Freemasonry.

So, in a way, Freemasonry was born with these two different oppositions inside, but they were oppositions just for the lower level of the pyramid because on top everything is united, even the [unclear: enemies]...

KC: So you’re saying the Freemasons and the Illuminati were united at the top of the pyramid? Even back then?

LZ: Freemasons are themselves a creation of the Rosicrucians, OK? Now where do the Rosicrucians come from? The Rosicrucian Enlightenment comes into being in the 1620s with a guy called Valentin Andreae. He spreads these Rosicrucian Manifestos that are secretly put in various places where people can see that there is a secret order, a secret college of initiated beings that existed from “before.” So they claimed that they were already an old order back then.

But who are really the Rosicrucians? Well, the birth of the Rosicrucians coincides with the neo-Platonics of Oxford, with what happened when Giordano Bruno, this important Dominican who was also put on the stake later on by the Vatican in the year 1600, the year of the Jubilium, because he was accused of being not only an heretic but of having used his magic and his evocation power.

Giordano Bruno was a guy of great intelligence and he went around Europe at that time trying to oppose in a certain way what the Vatican was doing, manipulating temporal power instead of spiritual power. That’s why Luther came around, that’s why the various schisms were happening at that time. Scandinavia was breaking away, The Netherlands, England drop already away. They were all breaking away from the Mother Church in Rome. So there was definitely a lot of problems back then.

Giordano Bruno went to visit Queen Elizabeth, became friends with John Dee. John Dee this great magician, this great alchemist. He instructed him on the secrets that only Giordano Bruno knew about certain ancient practices from Babylonia, from Sumerian times, and after that he traveled also to the court of other characters – the French King, the Spanish King. He met all the aristocrats of the time.

But what happened after was that this was the cornerstone, this neo-Platonic society with John Dee, Giordano Bruno...um...the inspiration of Tomaso Campanella, the inspiration of Roger Bacon before Sir Francis Bacon. This is the fundaments that really leads to the birth of Freemasonry.

The problem is, after, we have the evil Illuminati coming into the picture.

So what was the Rosicrucian tradition up until the birth of the Royal Society? It gets scrapped off the map for terrestrial interest.

So what they are trying to do in 1717 with the formation of the first Grand Lodge of Freemasonry at the Goose and Gridiron Pub in London – it’s already something corrupt because the Illuminati, the real Illuminati that preceded them, didn’t want in any way to have any kind of “deal” with the Church. One it's said Freemasonry was born itself as a deal between the Catholics, the Protestants and other people to meet up in common ground which was the Lodge.

KC: OK, but wasn't, isn’t the basic spirit behind...

LZ: Then we have the...

KC: ...Freemasonry and behind the Illuminati to be a search for enlightenment? Wasn’t that the root?

LZ: What I was saying is that, for example, until the birth of the Royal Society – Elias Ashmore probably was maybe one of the last truly genuine initiates - then what happened after... but even Ashmore himself was corrupt and was working as a secret agent most of his time, not as a truly enlightened being that is there to bring enlightenment. Most of this Freemasonic network started to be used for intelligence purposes, for purposes that were not the purposes, properly, of the people who originally founded true Freemasonry.

Where is true Freemasonry to be found? True Freemasonry is to be found in ancient times at the time of Enoch, who is called the First Master of Freemasonry. We talk about Abraham. We talk about the founding of the monotheistic religions – the coming of Moses, the coming of Jesus and then the coming of Mohammed. All these are part of a series of Illuminated Masters, enlightened beings, that want to bring illumination to this planet. Unfortunately all the religions, and Freemasonry included in all this, has been corrupted by mankind.

The intentions originally of these systems might be genuine, but these days, for example, Freemasonry. What is Freemasonry? For most people it’s a boring club of middle-aged people that go and smoke cigars, have a nice dinner; after that, some charity to justify their evil means. More they are evil, more they give charity in a certain way to cover up their evil, but this charity is tax deductible so it is not really...like they have no interest in doing this charity. There is always a tax deductible profit to be made.

KC: Well, is it really the Catholic Church trying to earn...to basically turn itself into the rulers of society, and owning all the money? And is money at the root of the corruption? Is that your understanding, or no?

LZ: Well, definitely. My experience in Freemasonry – I was initiated on the13th April, 1993, by the Insediata di Monreale in the Order of the Sword and the Eagle. I soon joined the Supreme Council of the 33-Degree. As an aristocrat, I got initiated by a family friend, somebody who was close for many centuries. The family, the Alliata family in Sicily (princes) family is close to the DiGregorio family.

So these aristocrats are actually passing on high degrees or Masterships within Masonic orders is not so unusual. In America it is unusual. In fact a lot of viewers from America, when they see me talking about the “Duke” of Kent, or the “Marchess” of Northampton, or the “Prince” in Italy, or the “Prince” of Monaco that would have been in charge of all the Masonic things, they kind of tend to say: "Ah but it’s not really how we’ve been brought up in America, because here Freemasonry is a common thing for everybody."

First of all, Freemasonry in America is not for everybody because there's been a lot of racism and that's why Prince Hall Freemasonry is born. That’s why in the year 2008 we’re probably going to have the first Freemason from Prince Hall Freemasonry to become the president of the United States, which is a 32-degree member, which is Barack Obama.

So the thing is, is Prince Hall Freemasonry taking revenge upon the many injustices they have? Well, at the end of the day, Prince Hall Freemasonry is born to be recognized by the Grand Lodge of England. That’s how Prince Hall, the founder, got recognized himself, as the first black man to get this charter from England, being able to start this order only for black men, at the time only for black men. And...er this...

KC: OK, what is the significance of that?

LZ: The thing is the Prince Hall Freemasonry comes into the realm, then, of being subservient. In fact, now this is recognized now for the first time, I think since 2001 or recently, a few of the Prince Hall Freemasonry Lodges started to be recognized by England officially.

Now they are officially being submitted to the power of the United Lodge of England. Because when you get recognition from the United Lodge of England, at that point, you are just hanging to become part of that “chain”. That chain that is born upon an aristocratic chain because, as I said, the Grand Mastership is given to the Duke of Kent, the Marquess of Northampton...

Who are these people? These people are, in reality, in charge of Holy Orders also, for the Church, for the Anglican Church but connected to the Catholic Church because, for example, the Knights of Malta: When the Reformation came into act, they split themselves and became the Knights of St. John in England, your Knighted Order in Sweden, and a network of the Knights of Malta under the sovereign monarch but the sovereign monarch himself – to wear that cross - is a copyright. You have to pay somebody. Sooner or later that copyright will always lead you to the Vatican and every sovereign monarch in Europe has been submitted to the Vatican power, even after the Reformation, because they were very clever to say: We want to ask independence but that was so the king could have many wives, the other guy could divorce, and anybody could do what they wanted.

KC: But the root of power…

LZ: But the root of power is the Vatican. The Vatican also has a bank, and I was a Freemason belonging to the Monte Carlo Lodge, born out of the P2 Propaganda Lodge of Licio Gelli. The Monte Carlo Lodge founded by Ezio Giunchiglia, William Rosati, Licio Gelli back in 1976 and modified during the course of time, stayed as the Committee of Monte Carlo, a representation of senior Freemasons from all various parts of Freemasonry, Grand Masters from various traditions, sometimes officially not recognizing each other, but still meeting there. Why? Because the Committee of Monte Carlo is a weapon dealers place. Because it’s all about weapons. It's about the sale of...

KC: OK. It’s about economics. It’s about running the world.

LZ: It’s about doing wars, it’s about selling weapons, it’s about making money. That money goes into banks. The bankers are very powerful. But also the weapons dealers are very powerful.

KC: OK. So who’s at the top of the pyramid? Who, specifically? Is it the Pope or is it someone else?

Bill Ryan (BR) [off camera]: Or is it the Black Pope?

LZ: We have to first of all divide power into temporal and spiritual power. OK?

KC: Right.

LZ: But the thing is that these two things are linked, like two keys or two eagles watching one side or the other like the 33rd degree Masonic symbol. This is the oppositions watching each other but linked still and, obviously, the Pope was always linked with the Emperor. So if the emperor of today is the President of the United States, that’s still under the Pope because the spiritual blessing comes from the Pope.

KC: The Pope’s a very old man. Is he really in charge, or is someone else in charge?

LZ: We have the Pope. Then we have the Jesuits. Many people say: “Are the Jesuits in charge?” The Jesuits are in charge for many years of the Secret Service of the Vatican. Which is also…

KC: Do you know any of these people?

LZ: Yes. I have photos if you want, with the head Jesuit of the Inter-religious Dialogue Department of the Jesuits.

KC: What’s your agenda?

LZ: In fact, recently I have been accused on the Internet of being, myself, a Jesuit agent because of pictures of me with senior Jesuits. Now the problem is, why I have picture with the senior Jesuits? Because I was involved in Inter-Religious Dialogue and up until even recently as last May I participated in an Inter-Religious Dialogue meeting here in Oslo where the senior Jesuit was present – which is Thomas Michel - and for people it is strange that enemies can meet up. Well, I was critic towards him, in front of him, but we still meet up. We don’t have to go around with guns and shoot each other. There has to be a level of dialogue above all, even between the enemies and this has happened always, since the beginning of time.

Now, if the opposition has only to be one guy like Alex Jones shouting with a microphone in front of a building, well that is a very stupid opposition for me, sorry. Opposition has to be a constructive opposition, we have to propose some alternatives, discuss some possibilities...

KC: What alternative would you suggest? What is your vision or what would your vision be? How would it be different than the Jesuits’, say? Vision for the world? Different spiritual path? Different occupation? Different preoccupation? How would you be differing from him?

LZ: Sure. Well, my intention is to reveal today, tonight, whenever you’re gonna see this video, a few things that might shock you. Like for example the revelation that in the Vatican itself, we have over 40 Cardinals that are Moslem and that are practicing the [unclear: possibly Geufan/Geushwan] which is a specific holy book that the Moslems use for specific purposes, and called the [unclear: possibly Geufan al Kabi/Kabili]. This book has been left to the descendents of Mohammed for a specific purpose also leading to the End of Times.

KC: What is the purpose?

LZ: To be able to control that evil, those evil forces that, for example, the majority, unfortunately in the Vatican practices with the Black Masses, with the evocation of certain entities, with the use of these demons. Now people may say: "Ah, how it is possible the Pope is evoking demons as well?" Well, if you just do a little bit of brief history lessons and you go and study the history of the Vatican, you will find that from [unclear: Papa Rotti] to many other Popes in the Vatican, they have been practicing magicians themselves, using evocations, publishing also material on these evocations. Through who?

The Jesuit Order is in charge of the esoteric side of the Vatican. This has happened because the esoteric order is very important for the Vatican as it includes all this secret information regarding the evocations and how this should be done. So, since the time of the Reformation the Vatican didn’t want the prophets and words to be left out of control. They said: "OK, we might leave them independence, but in the meantime we have the Jesuits controlling them in any way possible." Also through these links like the secret societies, and then the Rosicrucian became corrupt and became themselves part of the Jesuit conspiracy, in the 17th century...

KC: Are you familiar with the SIV?

LZ: The SIV is a secret intelligence of the Vatican supposedly, came into being during the period of the Second World War. The fact that it is still operative is a minus group of people compared to the secret service of the Vatican in the Knights of Malta. The Knights of Malta are the biggest secret service in the Vatican. They have diplomatic immunity. They have international sovereignty. They have a Grand Master which is totally sworn to believe that he has to be the true defender of the Pope and inside this membership you have the head of the intelligence of the MI6, the head of the CIA, the head of the NSA. The “Top Cosmic Secret” [security clearance] is for them, the most secret thing in the Vatican headquarters.

When you are in charge of the Vatican Library, and the people in charge of the Vatican Library are the Jesuits, then you have the Knights of Malta. So, basically, the SIV, what is? The SIV was, and still is, but limited compared to how it was used in the period of the Second World War – immediately after the Second World War – because after the Second World War it had to be used for the protection of those Nazis that needed to go to safe places… in the hands of the Americans, in the hands of… So...

KC: Why protect the Nazis?

LZ: Protect the Nazis, because the Nazis themselves were actually born out of a conspiracy, if we want, to create Adolph Hitler and make sure that this being did what he did so they could then claim the Israel state, everything in plan so, for the End of Times, the Jews have their land as it’s figured out in the ancient prophesies. So everything has to work in that way.

So the Knights of Malta, as I said, are themselves the head intelligence operatives in the military field; the Jesuits in the information and disinformation field. Now what happened with the SIV? The SIV, as I said, in the last 50 years has not been incredibly used but sometimes it came into action though the fact that the...

KC: Have you met members of the SIV?

LZ: I have met members of the Intelligence of the Vatican.

KC: OK, including the SIV?

LZ: The SIV is itself something that has been used in emergency times. OK? And I would like also to say that there is, unfortunately, today the disinformation coming from Jesuit headquarters. This information comes into being when Zecharia Sitchin meets in the year 2000 in Bellaria with Corrado Balducci. Zecharia Sitchin also gets invited by the Pope, John Paul II, visits secretly the Pope in the Vatican, takes from him instructions to write his pile of rubbish, which is the End of Days book that he has brought into being lately.

KC: You’re saying that Zecharia Sitchin was told to write this book, and was instructed on what to write?

LZ: Zecharia Sitchin was indeed instructed because he can’t tell the truth. This guy is deliberately spreading disinformation because he can’t reveal, really, the truth without causing problems for his cause, the Zionist cause, the cause of the Vatican, which he has... embraced...

KC: Are you saying that Zecharia Sitchin is a member of.... what? The Illuminati?

LZ: Absolutely. Zecharia Sitchin is a member of the New World Order used to spread deliberate disinformation.

Let's say...I want to just figure out how this happened. When at the end of the 1990s in the alternative media certain information started to spread, especially regarding these Anunnaki beings – call them Nephilims, call them however… you know...

Now, what are they really? Do they really want you to know what they ARE? No. They want you to know what they want … You know, their idea that they want to spread, is something of a big constructed lie which is disinformation. It is not the real thing. If you knew in reality what these entities were you would not even touch them. You would just drive the other way. [gestures turning 180 degrees]. These entities...

KC: Well, tell us… what is the real nature of the Anunnaki? From your point of view.

LZ: OK, OK. I will tell you. It is interesting how the Jesuits spread disinformation. A Jesuit contacted an Italian journalist in the UFO scene and spread a certain amount of disinformation, including the fact that the SIV was still the greater Intelligence of the Vatican – with what? – With a hundred people? A couple of Benedictine Monks, a couple of nuns, and a …? The Vatican includes millions of members worldwide. They all function as intelligence from the beginning of time. They all go to confessions, the Catholics [unclear: work or word] They are part of an intelligence system run by the Vatican. That’s how it is from the beginning of time, so they definitely don’t need only one apparatus that can do that.

Then, if you go and study the history of the SIV, you see that is a Jesuit-based thing, that it’s full of Jesuits. So, and then, on top of that, who is running the astronomical laboratories for the Vatican? The Jesuits. For example, in Mount Graham in Arizona, nobody asks what is happening? I can tell you what is happening. I can tell you also what they are doing.

KC: Well, tell me.

LZ: So this disinformation goes through, and then hits the appropriate sources and they can say: "Ah, OK, there is a Jesuit footage of Planet X." Another pile of... the biggest pile of rubbish ever! Could only come out of the minds of the Jesuits! Why? Because the Jesuits are very intelligent. They can figure out how to take – sorry if I say very low words – the piss out of anybody, because they are really masters of deception. I worked with them. I will show you some pictures, after, of these people, but how they work…

KC: So what is their motive for this disinformation?

LZ: All right. So you want to know more about the entities. Now who is spreading this, how do you think…? Zecharia Sitchin met with Corrado Balducci. Who is Corrado Balducci? Corrado Balducci is not only “the official spokesman” for the UFO in the Vatican. In fact, this is just a front. Who is he? He’s a demonologist.

KC: OK.

LZ: The biggest exorcist in the Vatican.

KC: Right...

LZ: That should already make you think: "OK, there is a connection here between the alien myth and the demonology." Now we found also that this connection is very much alive when most of the people who are spreading the disinformation regarding the alien beings have been from the time of Aleister Crowley and his following, the followers of Hubbard, or whatever. But these people have been deliberately spreading disinformation.

But to a certain extent Hubbard knew the truth as well as Crowley because they said themselves… I mean it was Crowley who said: "You called them gods. Then we called them angels. In 50 years we will call them something else." He showed the image of “the lamb” who was the first image resembling an alien being. This is genies. In Islam we call them genies. Djinns.

KC: But by any other name, what are we talking about? We're talking about spirits? Are we talking about a demon is nothing other than a spirit being? A being who is perhaps not incorporated in the material world?

LZ: No, it can incorporate. The thing is that there is a certain degree of misconception. OK, Let me tell you exactly what happens with UFOs. UFO: unidentified beings, OK? Or objects that fly around. Either they are military stealth operations which can’t be disclosed, or I think they are operations regarding the evocation of genies, coming from other dimensions. So, an inter-dimensional door is created, it is opened up. Where can these inter-dimensional doors be opened up? In certain spaces, in certain places. The “holy ground” from ancient times known to possess that possibility, purpose…

KC: For example, in Iraq?

LZ: No. Not Iraq. Just go to Mount Graham and study what the Jesuits are doing up there. There is a war between the American Native Indians and the Jesuits since the Jesuits have tried to build this observatory. And why is that? Because the Indians have used that mountain as holy ground for thousands of years and there is a specific entity living on top of that mountain – but on another dimension – when he wants, he can be called upon into this dimension, and evoked.

The Jesuits... just what they want to do. In the meantime they accuse the American Indians: "Oh, these are pagans. What are they doing to us? We have to do the science, observe the stars!" Oh … rubbish! [Kerry laughs] What they are doing… they are, yes, observing the stars and the planets. Why? Because you always have to reflect above/ below, whatever, you know, this rule of the Tablets of Hermes. I don’t need to go on with what is the main rule of the Freemasons – it is always to reflect below what is above. But it is to evoke these entities in a specific timeframe and this has to be carefully calculated.

What is magic? Magic is the calculation of the arts, with peculiar calculations around the symbols to evoke certain entities and have from them, if you want, certain gratifications. You can work with them. I, for example, will tell you a story, which is a family story from a relative of my wife actually, who I think it's her uncle or granddad, or whoever, who started working with these entities, these djinns. Why? Because he had a little ranch, an American-style ranch, with animals, where you are planting things. So he was alone. He wanted to find some workers.

This guy was very clever because he knew certain secret codes within the Koran that shouldn’t be used. He knew how to use them. He knew that reciting certain prayers in a continuous motion he would evoke certain presences and eventually he got to make a deal with them and they were working for him at night in the fields, doing all the field work. And a lot of Americans would say: "Wow, I’d love to have that going on in my place," you know? [laughs], "I could have a couple of these genies coming to work for me."

But that means subjecting yourself to those entities. That guy had to sell his soul. More than that, he would be enslaved by those forces for the rest of his life. In fact, he had to continuously recite these prayers and then not recite it at certain times and whatever, otherwisehe will take, for himself, a disaster and so....

KC: OK. Well then, let’s talk about you, for example.

LZ: ...and these entities also do the same thing that, what Americans call "abductions". I found reports in Middle-Eastern villages, many Middle-Eastern villages, of abductions, but they’re not going to American reserachers and say: "I saw a UFO." You’re not going to find anything. Instead, these entities have appeared, have manifested, not only have took people inside their dimension, in their own kingdom, they have basically kidnapped people, sometimes beaten them up and then thrown them back into this dimension. And this happened many times, but they are called djinn.

KC: You’re using a different language to deal with these entities. Who cares what you call them?

LZ: Yeah, but you have to be specific here because the moment you call them “UFO” you are doing exactly what the enemy wants you to do. The moment you call them “aliens,” you are doing exactly what the enemy wants you to do.

KC: OK. Let’s talk about your background a little bit.

LZ: No, let’s finish about Planet X because Planet X is very important. If we don’t finish it...

KC: Sure! We want go there, but I’d like to first talk about… You must have been involved...You have not sold your soul. Is this correct?

LZ: At a certain time I sold my soul. I hope that God will grant me that I will be forgiven for what I did and I will be able to ...

KC: Because you did evocation? You must do this as a....Do you consider yourself a Master, at this point? You’re a 33-degree Mason...

LZ: 33-degree is an honorary title which I didn't give much importance. The 90 and 95 of the Memphis and Mitzraim, which is an Illuminati rite of the Freemasons, which is itself a certain specific Egyptian rite, I give a bit more importance because there is a lot more esoteric evocational knowledge to...

KC: Sure and you must have meditated and prepared yourself and have the ability to do certain kinds of magic, yourself. Right?

LZ: I was prepared since I was a kid to enter a reality which was very different, probably, from the mainstream reality. My English grandmother was called Felicity Mason, well known in the scene as Anne Cumming for having written a book called The Love Habit. She was a very high degree member of the Illuminati. She gave me the first book of Aleister Crowley as a gift when I was 11 years old. It was The Book of Thoth. And from her, a lot of things...

She had incredible friends. You can go and check even on the Internet, the friends of Felicity Mason were Brion Gysin and William Burroughs. William Burroughs, one her best friends. I met incredible people from The Pet Shop Boys to Sting, all the singers, the rock artists, and at the same time also the writers, very avant garde. I met Brion Gysin in person more than one time, I met also when I was...

KC: Sure. But you can do magic and not be an evil person. Isn’t that right?

LZ: The prob...no, that’s the thing. Unfortunately I discovered after many years, and I have to say this is the final result of my studies, that if you want to stay within the magic realm of respect for God and everything… I mean, magic exists. You can stay in its magic realm but you don’t have to move anything around and become an active part of it, because that’s dangerous. It’s forbidden to do any magic in my new religion which is Islam, what I've embraced. It’s forbidden because it’s too dangerous.

So I would also advise people that are entering the “New Agey” kind of scenario where you have a lot of this spiritual practice that are somehow misleading and most of them also manipulated by the usual Jesuits, like the Hexagram. Now, the whole thing brought by Gurdjieff... but if you go and study who is dealing now with this system and who has been behind the system now, and you will see the usual Jesuits.

The fact that the Jesuits are even present in the New Age movement is not acknowledged by New Agers, but they should wake up. If this information from the aliens and the path of the Planet X, or whatever are the spiritual practice, is coming filtered from them, it’s because there is a reason. They don’t want you to perceive the REAL matter, the real reality…

KC: Well, what is the real reality, then?

LZ: The real reality is that we are definitely in a constant fight between angels and demons, between the devil Iblis who represents the dark side, and God. Now, if we accept that everything in nature all around us is itself part of God and a representation of God, we are all emanations of God. You are one emanation of God in this moment. He’s another [indicating Bill off camera] emanation of God in this moment. And I, al hamdu lillah, am another emanation of God, probably not the best, but at least I try. [Kerry laughs] We all manifest… You see, God has a thousand and one names, many different ways of being...

KC: Good and evil as well.

LZ: Good and evil, absolutely, because Iblis itself is the devil, yes, but the darker side of God, created itself by God. So obviously there is no creation, neither in the dark or the white side, that is not part of God, because God is the input, the starting input to this whole universal consciousness and also unviersal reality in the material plane. It was by an act of grace of God that we are here today on this little minimal, infinitesimal planet in a lost solar system... that we are here today. Talking like this. Why? But we also have our own history. We are reflections of God in many ways, and we have been granted the possibility of choosing where to go. We want to go towards God or we want to go towards the darkness?

KC: So tell me, your moment of realization in which you departed from being a member of the Illuminati. What happened to you? What made you change your mind?

LZ: See, it was in a very specific period of time in my life. It was… actually, my wife was pregnant, waiting for my kid that was after born – he’s a [unclear, possibly krumi] and love very good. He was born on the 7th of July, 2006, on a very specific day, very symbolic also for me because a year prior to that I was in London just a week before what happened on the 7th of July and I have to tell you that definitely the whole of London was flooding with Psy-Ops and they were working all kinds of manipulations to pull off what they pulled off that year, which was the terrorist attack in the tube station, an underground station, just one block away from where I used to live. I used to live in Euston Street, just down the road from my bureau, so I could have been myself dead. I could have been, if I was actually just a few more days in London.

But what I realized was that through a series of acts of grace, God has given me the possibility of still being here. In the year 2003 I started to clash with the Illuminati, especially the American side of the Illuminati, which was made up of a series of occultists, all very presumptuous, with various secret societies all manipulated by the CIA in one way or the other, but still loyal to the New World Order planning anyway.

KC: How did you disagree with them?

LZ: I disagreed with them… Initially I tried to find a possibility of a meeting. We wanted to celebrate the 1904 anniversary. What’s that? The revelation that Aleister Crowley made in 1904 was the revelation of Aivass, the messenger of Horus, or basically Horus, this god from ancient Egypt.

KC: Horus.

LZ: Yes. He delivered the book that the Illuminati took somehow seriously, which was this Book of the Law, which is the biggest pile of rubbish in the world. But it also is a very dangerous book. It’s a heretic book. I don’t see many books being so heretic, but if there is one that definitely has all the blasphemies, it is The Book of the Law of Aleister Crowley.

KC: OK, but...

LZ: But also all the contrasts because this book says, on one [page], a beautiful word – [unclear: quoting a foreign language] or "Each man and each woman is a Star.” Beautiful words. Incredible.

But then you have in another phrase these terrible things: “The law of the strong should prevail, the Mary should be torn from the cross, Mohammed should be…” Sorry. [unclear: arabic sentence] Sorry what I’m saying, because really what is in this book, the Book of the Law, is everything and the contrary of everything, which represents really the Luciferian character of Aleister Crowley, and the fact that he found many adepts for what was to come in the years after him. You see, Aleister Crowley managed to plant the seeds very carefully into America, in California, with the Parsons' Lodge [Agape] which Hubbard became a member and then after he founded Scientology. But he managed to plant these seeds very well, also in Canada.

And from these seeds, a revolution came into being, that became after the New Age revolution. Because 10 years after the death of Aleister Crowley, William Burroughs and others were practicing at the Beat hotel his rituals; and then years after that, we have the 1960s revolution which is a whole hymn towards Aleister Crowley’s work, if you want. On many sides it’s been manipulated, the 60s. And I must say very sadly we have to understand that this manipulation went... especially for the people who were more innocent, who became victims of these gurus coming from India were deliberately spread into the West with their fake and false… showing a little bit of their techniques, that obviously the Western man… because the Western man is now so distant from this spiritual reality and the possibilities of the spiritual also becomes the material. So these two realities are connected.

That’s why, when before you asked me, who is more powerful, the Pope or the President? Well, the thing is… does the President die? The President of the US, or not? Yes, he dies. One day he will die. He can’t be immortal, OK? So he has to meet death. Well, for him to meet death without the approval of the Pope is to be, basically, scrapped off the map, because they themselves are relying on those blessings and that network to bring their power to the successors, to the people after them and to the people after and after them.

KC: So you’re saying one hand of this washes the other. But to get back to your own realization, your own change. You went against the main Illuminati…

LZ: Yes. At the beginning, as I said, I…

KC: How did you differ?

LZ: At the beginning what happened was this. I wanted to see if it was possible to give a stop to certain practises of evocation of certain demons that were really dangerous for mankind. I thought at that point I could eventually move on the positive side of things, this movement, also the esoteric movement which is very powerful and taking a lot of people within the New Age field, and beginning somehow toward the realization of something more positive.

I thought that Aleister Crowley was definitely NOT positive because it’s not the way forward. Aleister Crowley has been put there for a purpose, which is to be "The Beast". Now, the Beast is not the best character you have in the Apocalypse. So, in the transformation toward the End of Time scenario and the realization of a Revelation, there is something that people are waiting for. Everybody's waiting for 2012. Why are they waiting for 2012? Why? Because they are hoping that this will lead to somehow a cosmic consciousness and the beating of certain energies and that’s true.

The manifestation of these energies on Earth will be very strong because the cosmic scenario – the alignation [alignment] – the way the planets are coming together... the stars and the whole universe, is something that happens to be connected to the “Holy Number of God”. For the Illuminati, this number is 25,920. Twenty-five-thousand, nine-hundred-and-twenty. Part of it is 2,160. This becomes the change of an era.

In Stonehenge, from the eastern gate, we will see the sun. That will be the moment of change for humanity. From a certain “Age” we enter another “Age” which is an age full of psychic power and of metaphysical strength, and we have to deal with it. But the powers that are on top of us, what I have been fighting now since I came out of it, is people that unfortunately want to use these powers to their own advantage.

If the guy from the CIA will go to the Grand Master – Lon Milo Duquette, for example, who is a famous occultist in the US. He has written many books. He’s the guy who writes the introduction for the Aleister Crowley Manual.

KC: What is the name again?

LZ: Lon Milo Duquette. He’s the deputy-Grand Master of the OTO (Ordo Templi Orientis). He is living in California. I met him. He came here to Rome. I took care of him in London at the time in 2001. Just prior to 9/11 we were together. There was a secret gathering here of the Illuminati in the mountains here in Norway – of this branch of the Illuminati – because I don’t say that the OTO is allthe Illuminati. It’s a small branch, dedicated to manipulate the young culture especially – because each one has their own specific thing, this New World Order.

The Rotary club is built for the businessmen. Then if you want something more of a thrill, then give them a fancy apron, lift him a couple of sleeves, initiate him into Freemasonry. And after that, if you see that the guy is ready to be manipulated even more, well at that point you get him into the elite. You get him into the Illuminati Order. You have the Martinists, you have the Rosicrucians. All these orders have been corrupt by greed. In the West there is no such thing…

KC: You said you were a host to this head of the Illuminati in the United States...

LZ: Yes.

KC: …you were calling him.

LZ: But what, he’s the head of the Order of Templi Orientis Illuminati, which is the official representatives of Aleister Crowley. They are the ones who have the copyright over the works of Aleister Crowley.

KC: Fine, but did you find him to be under the thumb of the Jesuits?

LZ: No. Under the thumb of the CIA.

KC: The CIA.

[Leo/ KC overtalk]

LZ: Just a second. He was under the thumb… On one side, he was under the thumb of the CIA because he wanted to be a loyal American. Apparently, he thought that by working with them, he could help them with his knowledge. He’s particularly clever with the Tarot. He’s the Grand Master of the Tarot Association in the United States. And at the same time, he’s also clever with the Enochian Tablets and the use of that. And he has written many, many, many books.

KC: Do you consider him to be a Master?

LZ: He’s definitely a master of the esoteric. But he is, for example, somebody who is used, like I said, by the CIA but also from the Jesuits on the other side. Now, he himself thought that he was opposing somehow the Jesuits or the Knights of Malta or even the Skull and Bones because he was initiated at the level that he didn’t have the knowledge of the level on top of him. But the people on top of him, for example, William Breeze, who is the head of the OTO in America linked to Alberto Moscato, who himself was working for the Vatican, for… Corrado Balducci, for the Jesuits and for the usual thing.

When, for example, this Corrado Balducci was mentioned to me the first time – it was, I think, maybe spring of the year 2000 – that he was mentioned in connection...from Alberto Moscato. He said: "This is my dear friend in the Vatican. I have, you know, I'm working with him." And he himself, Alberto Moscato, that died in mysterious circumstances, he was the head of the Italian OTO. He died in mysterious circumstances just a year and a half ago.

KC: Hmm. Do you know why was he killed?

LZ: Two years ago he was killed.

KC: In your opinion?

LZ: Well, I know why he was killed.

KC: You do? And why?

LZ: [laughs] See, the thing was a little bit my fault.

KC: OK.

LZ: Because when my superior in America... which is Giorgio Ugo Balestrieri, Commandante Giorgio Ugo Balestrieri, who is the director of the Rotary Club in New York, who is also a P2 member. Now, people on these Masonic info websites in America have accused me of being a fake, but then I have proven them over and over again with official documentation, which is always in my hands. [lifts large stack of notebooks toward the camera. Kerry laughs.] I remember to all those people out there.

KC: Yes.

LZ: That I was involved with these people, and that Giorgio Balestrieri was also an illegal weapons dealer, a guy in charge of the defensive strategies for terrorism. He’s the guy who after 9/11 first made a lot of business selling security equipment to the American airports.

KC: And this was your head?

LZ: This was my head for the project which was… no, because we each have a superior, you understand. Yes?

KC: Yes.

LZ: Appointed by another superior. Now my official head was actually my mentor in the P2 was Ezio Giunchiglia, the head of the Monte Carlo Lodge. But he presented me to Giorgio Balestrieri because he wanted me to have also an international approach and also have the possibility to build up in the international division of the Rotary Club, which is based in New York, which Giorgio…

KC: Are these arms dealers, then?

LZ: Yeah. Yeah.

KC: The Rotary Club?

LZ: The thing is, the Rotary Club there is a lot of good people. They don’t know, but they should investigate. Now I would just invite the people – just go on the Internet. Punch in Giorgio Balestrieri. See he was officially involved in the P2 by the list that was taken by the police in 1981, so the name is on the list. There is no “how,” “but,” or this or that.

The guy would have been arrested if he still had an Italian passport but he has been given an American passport and he has also been given the possibility to be the director of YOUR Rotary Club in America. Why? Because you are a corrupt nation, subservient to the Vatican, subservient to the Zionists, subservient to a New World Order that, in my opinion, is completely corrupt.

Now to accuse me that I will not be eligible to join the Rotary Club, because that's the accusation that the Freemasons have made to me: "Oh, Leo, how is it possible that you… well, you know, you could never have joined the Rotary in any case." Well, if I’m not eligible and I’m not an assassin, I’m not a murderer... In any case I never did these two now but Giorgio Balestrieri who is being convicted officially and also of being a weapon dealer in the Livorno Port of Italy during one of the darkest periods of the Italian…

KC: So this Balestrieri -- is that how you say his name?

LZ: Giorgio Balestrieri.

KC: OK. He is the head of the Rotary Club? Now?

LZ: Of New York. Right now.

KC: And he used to be sort of your superior.

LZ: Yes. Until I left the Illuminati.

KC: And you're saying he’s an arms dealer, or was?

LZ: Yes. Sure, sure. He still is. He is one of many.

KC: Was he arrested?

LZ: No-no-no-no-no. If he went to Italy at that time with an Italian passport… He’s an American now; he’s untouchable now. He has an American passport. He’s untouch... He’s not any more an Italian.

KC: Tell me something. He’s Illuminati.

LZ: Yes.

KC: Is he also part of Majestic 12? Do you know who these people are?

LZ: No. I never … in my personal experience, Majestic has been always an organization mentioned mostly by conspiracy theorists without foundation. I never found any realistic existence of this Majestic 12, or this Majestic organization…

KC: Committee of the Majority? You do not know these people?

LZ: If you talk to me about the CFR, the Trilateral, these are realistic things that exist, the Bilderberg, they are tangible. You can touch them. The Illuminati – they exist. I was into an organization which I can show you [reaches for his stack of documentation] the documents and that was the Universal Illuminati at Monte Carlo Lodge. These are things I have experienced...

KC: OK. What about James Jesus Angleton, because he was...

LZ: Sure. He was a Knight of Malta.

KC: A Knight of Malta. OK.

LZ: So? Now we want to say where the Knights of Malta meet up because now, recently, people are asking: “Do they really meet up in the Via Condotti for decisions, or is there another place?” Well, I said to a Knight of Malta who emailed me recently, a few things about his old order and he was shocked and at the end he said: “Oh, I didn’t know you knew so much and I have to apologize for my first approach.”

This guy is called Bryan Waltlick from the Knights of Malta in Ireland and when I talked to him that the real meeting place of the Grand Magistry is on the Aventine Hill. In fact that’s where they had the funeral and where they showed the body of their Grand Master just a couple of days ago because Grand Master Andrew Berti died last week.

There is something that is happening at the Vatican in the last year or so. First of all we had the changing of Cardinal Ruini with the Cardinal Bagnasco – that was Bishop Bagnasco before for the Conference, Episcopal Conference, in Italy. Then in January we had the elections of the new Jesuit Superior General, which is Adolfo Nicolas – so somebody who is now completely different from Hans Kolvenbach, as a character. He’s coming from a different experience though, obviously, the aims of the order are always the same.

I know that Adolfo Nicolas has been also close to Thomas Michel because they both come from Asia. One was in charge of the province in Japan, the other one in Indonesia, and so they were close friends in their work. So what I heard last year before the elections was definitely that Father Hans Kolvenbach was too old for carrying on his job properly so somebody new had to be called in. I think that they are renewing the blood. They are trying to bring fresh young arms to the whole system.

First they renovate the Jesuits. Obviously they couldn’t kill Kolvenbach. [laughs] Kolvenbach himself was a little bit too much of a manipulator and would not have been so killable. But instead I have a couple of doubts on the sudden death of Andrew Berti, especially after...just a few weeks after the election of the new Superior General, because he was in quite good condition. He participated to all the latest diplomatic meetings of the Knights of Malta with various heads of state and things like this, so it came to me as strange news, though I’m not anymore in that circle. I can’t confirm or not if there is being some kind of murder behind the scenes. But in the Vatican, that is very highly possible, you know, to change somebody.

KC: Are you still in touch with some of the people that you knew? You know, some of the members that were close to you back then?

LZ: Yeah… some people. Very few, though, have the courage to still… I have actually even a Masonic Obedience in Italy which is called Grande Oriente Italiano del Piazza de Gesu, which is not connected in any way with the work I was doing prior. They invited me to participate to a Lodge meeting on the 10th January in Rome. So I, basically for the first time after two years, participated to a Masonic Lodge meeting, in a Lodge that invited an anti-Mason, or at least somebody who is perceived as such by the majority of Masons.

But why they did that? Because the whole Obedience is not corrupt, is not fearing… They have contacts with the Jesuits, with Padre Caprile in the ’70s, the Grand Master prior to that... They have always been...This is a Scottish Rite system, so they have a tradition which is obviously quite linked to the Vatican in some ways especially because... Grande Oriente del Piazza del Gesu, which was specifically linked with the Vatican. But at least they had the courage to invite me in a fraternal way to a Lodge, instead they didn't do what the Grand Lodge of Maine did – which threw out a whole page full of rubbish on me and accused me of being this and that, eh?

KC: OK, but they invited you. What purpose would you have in going?

LZ: I went. I went. I’ll show you the pictures.

KC: I understand. But what did you hope to accomplish?

LZ: What I do is to talk openly about what is, for example, the Jesuit influence upon the Scottish Rite, which is an historical influence which – this goes back three centuries, so it is interesting, and there is also an historical point of view – to discuss with them the influence of the Vatican upon certain branches of Freemasonry, to open their minds against what is the New World Order. Trying to discuss and find if there is a way of dialogue now. For example, there was in this Lodge, the Garibaldi Lodge, some very interesting people, also some Intelligence members from the Italian Intelligence. Now we gathered together. We had a great laugh, a great dinner after ,where we talked about the Brigidine (nuns), the order of… all kinds of…

KC: So they’re not necessarily all corrupt. Isn’t this right? There are some them that must be…

LZ: What I did is this: instead of participating to a Rite meeting... Rite? What is the Rite? The Rite is every meeting from the fourth degree onwards to the 33rd. That is the Rite. Then you have the Order, which is the first three degree. In reality, you see, a Freemason can’t be more than a Master Mason. The higher degree is the 3rd. And for me, keeping it simple and down to those three degrees, actually it’s still possible for me to go in a Lodge and not practice anything that I can really call as satanic.

OK, you have the death and rebirth myth of the Hiram Abiff – but that’s like Osiris – is a kind of death/ rebirth myth that goes on from ancient times. So the Mason is made to believe he’s a Hiram Abiff, he’s killed, is then resurrected by the Masons there, is given the various grips, the various signs to recognize himself with others Masons worldwide.

But when you enter in the Rite, for me the Scottish Rite is corrupt. I said that. Why? Because part of the degrees have been created by the Jesuits.

The York Rite is corrupt. Why? Because part of the degrees has been created by the Zionists, other parts of the degrees have been created by corrupt people close to the Catholic, but also close to the Anglican, Church for various reasons.

And so at the end, Universal Freemasonry is not really universal.

Leo Zagami (LZ): [with document held toward camera]: Some people say the Illuminati don’t exist. Well this is an official document from the [unclear; Real Mathis] Lodge and leaves no doubt that the Illuminati not only exists, but they practice what is known as the Primitive Rite of Memphis-Misraim which is the Egyptian Rite. This Rite brings them above the 33rd Degree because the Memphis-Misraim goes until the 99th Degree. And it's basically the peculiarity of this Rite that, for me, made it a difficulty to stay in the Illuminati. Because this Rite, on the contrary of the others that… OK... are corrupted politically, they have a political… But this one is completely diabolic in its own internal belief system and leads many of its members to become involved in Satanism.

In fact, for example, heads of the Memphis-Misraim in Italy, like Roberto Negrini, is involved in a satanic anti-Christian order, the Ordo Templi Orientis Fraternitas Luciferiana and there is many others like him in America that have, like Michael [unclear: Bertiovi] involved in Satanism and also close to Anton LaVey. I found a lot of other characters here in Europe that practice the Memphis-Misraim.

Kerry Cassidy (KC): Isn’t the Bush family also involved in the Illuminati, in Satanism?

LZ: Sure, sure. Each one is involved with their own Orders, their own Lodges, their own Degree systems. The Skull & Bones have their own operational way of working, their own legends, the Knights of Eulogia]. It’s a specific kind of initiation where you have the devil, Don Quixote and the Pope. That should already tell you who are really the figures here that are in charge of the real power, because the Pope is sitting on the center and even if Georgie Bush likes to dress up as Pope when he’s down in the Skull & Bones, he’s not the Pope. [Kerry laughs] So...and he’s not the devil. [laughs]

KC: But is the Pope the devil? In Skull & Bones?

LZ: [laughs] No, these are the different characters that actually are enacted during the initiation of the Skull & Bones.

KC: Right, and also at Bohemian Grove as well.

LZ: Bohemian Grove is a different kind of initiation. There they like to dress up in even more fancy clothes; usually Republicans; a lot of whores, a lot of whores, a lot of prostitution goes on during the night of Bohemian Grove.

KC: A fake sacrifice sort of ceremony, or a real sacrifice?

LZ: Oh, a real sacrifice. A real sacrifice is at times when you have the most secretive operations that are aimed for, in some way, maintaining the real occult path of destruction which is of worshipping an Owl of St. John of Naples. It is an old character from Bohemia and why is Bohemia so important? Well, Bohemian because then you have also from Bohemia, you have Jakob Bohme, who was himself one of the most illustrious Rosicrucians of all time.

KC: Right, but the point of it is worldly success, is it not?

LZ: Worldly success? The point is...

KC: I mean, in terms of Bohemian Grove, what is their purpose?

LZ: The point for all these clubs is different, and it’s created by the people who actually have created them and then the people on top who manipulate them for their own purpose... whatever is their purpose. For example, is to blackmail people, their practices might be very twisted. If it is to create a fraternal bond of death like the Order of Death in the Skull & Bones, then a human sacrifice is required to meld that bond together so those people feel connected by a secret that is impossible to reveal.

KC: And who becomes sacrificed in this situation? Is it a child?

LZ: No. What happens in the Illuminati, by their own instructions, is an ancient practice that was also done by the rabbis in, the most orthodox rabbis since ancient times, in Israel. And this is to create a fetus and sacrifice it amongst the members of the congregation. They eat this fetus.

KC: Really.

LZ: This is really what also Crowley described in the higher degrees of this Ordo Templi Orientis and what is practiced, as I said, comes from an old, also Jewish, practise. But where did they take this kind of practise? These practises are born from ancient times, from their captivity in Babylonia to their permanency in Egypt. Egypt is the example of what the Illuminati are. Now I will show you also, later, a picture of how the Lodge is here in Oslo.

KC: We went there.

LZ: Oh, you went?

KC: Yes.

LZ: OK, but inside. I will show you the temple inside.

KC: OK, very good. Yes, we were not allowed inside.

LZ: What I can tell you about the temple inside is… They are called a Christian Masonic order. OK? There are only Christians here. Many Freemasons around the world are actually horrified by the practise here in Scandinavians in which they can be so racistic [racist]. They can’t include the Jews, the Hindu, the Muslims, because of their own Christian Order of Knights Templars, because that’s what they claim to be. You saw the cross and symbol when you went to the headquarters, with the lion and the red cross.

KC: Yes. But you’re saying that this is an emphasis on…

LZ: So inside, though… Outside it is all Christianity. But if you go inside that temple, on top you will notice this symbol. [shows picture of Egyptian wing from previous document]

KC: Sure.

LZ: That is nothing of Christian origin. You will notice that the temple inside, what is the Swedish Rite – one of the most esoteric and most occult rites of Freemasonry which is practised here in Norway. It’s practised in the whole of Scandinavia. So that means Norway, Sweden, Denmark, also practised in parts of Germany, practised in Iceland and also in parts of Finland.

This specific Rite, Swedish Rite, horrified me by their hypocrisy, because on one side they portray themselves as good Christians to the community. On the other side, they are practising pagan beliefs which are completely incompatible with the belief in One God. That’s why ... [inaudible] ... came because the Christians were already worshipping “gods.” They left the true path of Jesus already several centuries after Jesus came, the Christians were already worshipping other things, including them with Christianity, having a wrong perception of Christianity.

The same with the Jews. They started to worship something different. With Moses went just up the mountain, Why? Because there is a tendency in humankind to have the worship for these entities that can give you terrestrial power.

We were talking about the Annunaki, we were talking about the Nephilim, but there is this… these entities that come from other dimensions, other places in this universe. They can cross over into this dimension if we evoke them, if we call them and also the weak, the ill, the sick of mind, as described by Eliphas Levi in The Book of Transcendental Magic, they can become easily possessed by these demons and become the zombies in a way. That’s why also we have the zombie character which is created in voodoo. They give them a very strong poison that completely burns the brain of the character and makes him possessed by this entity.

KC: So this is also mind control, is it not?

LZ: It’s mind control. But that’s why you will find that most of the people in the mind control sectors of intelligence units, the people who are taking control of the Psy-Ops operations, they are occultists. Because occultism and black magic is the most ancient form of military tool known to mankind, from the ancient times.

KC: So this is… Yes, to manipulate.

LZ: And also this is Pharaonic. I’m against, since I, in June 2006, participated, first to a meeting in Monte Carlo on the 1st of June. Then I went to San Cerbone on the second and third of June, when I was in San Cerbone, a monastery near Lucca. And then after that I left and went to Livorno and I have a cousin in the military in Livorno. I had a very illuminating meeting with Giorgio Hugo Balestrieri at the military academy, because he is military. He is part of the naval of the military so...and I was with him for a whole day. After a long time, we really knew each other, I really understood what these people were up to. It was illuminating for me, to understand that they were totally taking advantage of me and that this time they wanted me to infiltrate the organization of my wife.

My wife is part of a Muslim organization that was co-founded by her father, and now this organization is a very big organization, very powerful. It counts millions of adepts and for that reason they wanted me... and also it is a moderate Muslim school. The connection for them was too strong and too tempting. They wanted to use me in order to infiltrate this Muslim organization that is especially powerful in Turkey and they are very interested in Turkey for various reasons.

For that, Giorgio Hugo Balestrieri has been with another guy called Kaan Soyak who is a Turkish Freemason, very big in New York.

KC: So what is the purpose? Why is Turkey of such interest?

LZ: It is very important for the control of the whole Caucasus region of ex-Soviet republics: Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan, Tajikistan. All this side of things is actually now pretty much under the control of Turkey because Turkey was able, after the fall of the Soviet Union, to build schools, to build a link with these republics, that some of them have also oil. And for that reason it is very important that you have the control of a very rich area and tactically very important for the Americans and for the New World Order to be in control.

For that reason, it was... I think in April 2005, 2006 when they came together with a special group of Illuminati meeting in Ankara in Turkey under the Rotary Club. So this meeting is recorded. You can go and check it out. Comandante Giorgio Hugo Balestrieri did an invocation to the One God, and whatever. He was covering up everything with a nice veil of “We’re doing it for peace between religions, for...”

But in reality, what? The guy is selling weapons. The guy is making money. The guy is interested in northern Iraq. The guy is interested in… Because also there is northern Iraq, you have Turkey there. You have a lot of interests. And Giorgio Hugo Balestrieri has been personally involved in dealing with northern Iraq and making business in northern Iraq.

KC: OK. The Vatican must also be interested in oil if they’re interested in weapons.

LZ: Ah, oil is fundamental. It’s oil, weapons, and that’s it, and then you have the banks. It’s oil and weapons. I didn’t mention the oil until now because I forgot, I was, I mean…

KC: So obvious, right?

LZ: Obvious. But the whole fact that they went to Iraq is just to take their oil and in Afghanistan to have control over…

KC: OK. But what about free energy? Are you aware of free energy? Do you know what it is?

LZ: Sure, sure.

KC: And the Vatican is basically keeping hold of this scientific knowledge so that it doesn’t get dispersed, so that people don’t get free from oil?

LZ: But let me tell you why.

KC: Why?

LZ: The thing is that this problem started, as I said, with Giordano Bruno nearly 400 years, more than 400 years ago, and that problem was the certain physical but also metaphysical knowledge. Scientifical knowledge that could revolutionize humankind could not be manifested on humankind without creating also a change in their belief system. So we were...

KC: Right. So the Catholic Church would no longer be in power. The Illuminati would not be necessary. Right? If you don’t depend on them economically, materially, you’re not tied to them spiritually either. Right?

LZ: Absolutely. The fact that they have control over certain things and that you are consuming those things is essential for this materialistic society that we have in place. This materialistic society is a reflection of the End of Times scenario, the Kali Yuga, the last part of the Kali Yuga. The Kali Yuga – this specific timeframe describing the End mythology – is a very dark period in which there is very little light, very few Masters to be seen on the horizon. René Guénon himself, a very great initiate of Freemasonry, of the Illuminati, abandoned everything and became a sheikh and went to Cairo and became Muslim, hamdu lilla. Why? Because there was a reason. He had to save himself from what he had been involved in.

In fact I invite everybody to read René Guénon, because even if he’s a great traditionalist in a way, he was Catholic but then he transformed himself. Why? For a reason. He SAW what they were doing in the occult. He SAW the corruption in the church and in all these groups that were surrounding the church. For example, today we have Gnostic churches that claim to have some apostolic succession going back to the time of Christ. They are all under the control of the Vatican. All under the control.

KC: Even the Gnostics.

LZ: All the Gnostics. I can give you information, very detailed information, about how the Vatican and the Jesuits keep an eye on all the Gnostic movements, on every wandering bishop. People like Stephan Hoeller that I met personally. They are completely subject to the Vatican and to Freemasonry, being himself a 32-degree Freemason, Stephan Hoeller, he represents one of the biggest Gnostic traditions these days in the United States.

KC: Hmm...

LZ: Bishop Hoeller, yah? This is how he is – this kind of very Germanic character, yah? But he was himself… He’s a really typical Illuminati scum. If I have to say “scum,” it's scum. Because these people are Nazis. Their approach is Nazi. But it is camouflaged in a way that they are always pro-Jewish, so they’re: "No no no. We support Israel." They can’t be. But they are in reality Nazis and Israel itself is acting as a Nazi because of them, you know?

KC: Right. So how does Zionism play into this? Because you’re not talking about the Jewish people only. You’re talking about Zionism as a religion, right?

LZ: I don’t have anything against the Jewish people because myself I have close relatives even Jews. I don’t have a problem with the Jewish people. The Jewish people are actually chosen by God for a specific purpose, that's not the ultimate... But they have an important...

KC: So how does Zionism play into the whole Illuminati story?

LZ: See, the thing is this. The religion of Abraham got corrupted during the course of time. Certain families got corrupted and they also mingled with the Vatican for 2,000 years in Rome. They have been the … The most ancient Jewish community is in Rome. [shows picture of 3 men] In this picture – we’re talking about the Jews – their great influence and great power, and they really have great power, even in the oligarch movement in Russia. They are very powerful. In this picture we have here [points to figure on left] Senator Sergey Gordeyev, famous Russian billionaire... Senator, close friend of Vladimir Putin and also one of my close friends for a time, because he was the representative of the Illuminati of the Grupo de Eur in Moscow, and one of the senior Intelligence operatives at all levels regarding the research of the Holy Grail and all that matters, for the Russian government. He gave me a gift which, after, I would like to show you, which is a mask brought from Tibet.

[showing mask] It's a gift, the Illuminati likes to give this kind of gift, ancient artifacts, this kind of stuff. This peculiar artifact was very interesting because it was given by the 13th Dalai Lama as a gift to Nicolas II, the Czar of Russia because their intention was to subject Nicholas II to the Illuminati control of Tibet because the Tibetans, the Tibetan monks, are the Illuminati of the East and they are seen as the Illuminati of the East. This mask was given to me as a gift by Senator Sergey Gordeyev, which I showed you before in the picture, Senator of the Russian Federation and famous Russian billionaire...

KC: Right.

LZ: ...and kind of “Indiana Jones” of the situation. That’s how I find this kind of thing. [laughs] But actually this was given – if I don’t get it wrong – to his uncle who was at the time mediating for the conversion of Nicholas II to the 13th Dalai Lama. Unfortunately that didn’t happen, we all know how things went then in Russia. But he managed to preserve this thing, this artifact and to bring it out of Russia in 2002. It was quite an adventure, I tell you.

KC: Very powerful.

LZ: It is very powerful. And why his motivation? I asked Sergey: "Why are you giving me such a gift?" I mean, it’s a quite incredible gift of historical value, obviously for him, maybe, but it was very important. I think that the Russians really wanted to get rid of it because, apparently, it is connected to a very powerful entity that it transports it, with it. It has the power to emanate it. The Russians basically wanted to get it out of their borders. [laughs]

KC: I see. So did you purge it? you know...

LZ: So, I myself obviously have to be very careful with it and with the use of it but it definitely is under my close surveillance and I have it. So that’s it, you know. I’m going to keep it.

KC: OK.

LZ: It’s a very peculiar mask, very peculiar. The 14th Dalai Lama, the present Dalai Lama, used it when he has his own divinator who went into trance with this mask before the Chinese arrived and warned him to go away. So in a way it saved the life of the Dalai Lama. But this tradition, as we were saying, is part of the Bon tradition, the shamanic tradition of Tibet. It is more ancient than the Buddhist tradition but it’s said to be dominated by the Buddhists and by the Red Caps of Tibet.

[showing photo from before] In the middle we have a Jew, Lazarus. Lazarus is… His wife is the head of, basically, the Customs in Russia, so you can’t get into Russia without the wife of ... [laughs]. She is the head of all Customs operating, especially Moscow. And he himself, an oligarch, working for the oligarchs. He’s of Georgian origin, but he‘s a Jew and he explained to me how the Jews originally transformed themselves into the aristocracy of the Communist establishment and managed to survive also the persecution of Stalin if they simply worked with the establishment in a certain way. Nowadays they are very strong. But for example, Sergey Gordeyev officially objects to Zionists.

But when this other guy here gave him a $900,000 watch in front of my eyes, he accepted it. And why, you say, why a Senator from the Russian federation should accept such a gift? Because corruption in Russia is made with watches. There is one-million-dollar watches, once I had three of them on my table, and they are used for corruption by the Illuminati, so they can keep on their oligarcy and all their practices without…

KC: So how does Zionism serve the Illuminati’s interest? You’re talking about their vision of Armageddon because it is written so in the Bible?

LZ: Absolutely. The Zionism you see is a corrupt branch of what is really the religion of Abraham, that was already corrupt for a long time, and tried too with Zionism, especially coming out of Ukraine, to gather power. But the Zionist families, like for example the Rothschilds, who have been so important for the implementation of Zionism, have themselves also working links to the Vatican because they are Knights of Malta. So you will say: How is possible, Zionists and the Vatican? It doesn’t really fit in. One should oppose the other.

While publicly it might seem so, in reality they are completely connected and I think that John Paul II made this quite evident when he called them “our oldest brothers” and embraced with so much love the rabbi in Rome – which I repeat: Rome is the oldest Jewish community in the world. So, connected to Rome, you have also this, and they worked for the Vatican.

I saw Mossad agents in Rome from the Sonnino family, which I used to work with, involved with the Banda Della Magliana, which was this fearsome gang of people, involved with the P2, with the Intelligence Service, killers that were doing all kinds of... weapons, cocaine, heroin, all kinds of business with them. And they were receiving, every year, a letter from Andreotti , which is a senior Democrat Christian, very well known in the Atlantic path in the NATO, Andreotti is one of the key people in Italy, also a politician still nowadays. He has been Prime Minister for many times. And he was, is, a senior Opus Dei and P2 member. But working with these people, I saw the power of the Zionist establishment.

For example, Giorgio Hugo Balestrieri wanted to do a...he's a carabi...er...a warlord. And I said: "Why?" Because under the influence of the Zionistic element that is always there and they like to go in Jerusalem. They have a specific place under what is the Temple of Solomon. Still nowadays they do this practice. They have a high priestess of Melchizedek. Now this high priestess is not really a woman. It’s a man-woman. He’s a priest who used to be a man and a priest and monk, I think, working for the Vatican. He’s one of the biggest experts of the Bible. He’s now called “Michela Mercenari.” He had a sex change, approved by the Vatican. Now she’s working some kind of university, officially. In reality she’s working also for the police and their investigations in the occult and occult matters. But she’s the high priestess of Melchizedek, of the order of Zion, and celebrates these occult rituals in Jerusalem with the elite...there and her function is to be androgene, [androgynous] because half-man, half-woman. She can have this…

Zionist element is working, at times it has been opposing, the Vatican but at the end has decided, especially after the Second World War, to merge and it couldn’t be otherwise, because after the Second World War, the Vatican became an American club. Also the Freemasons didn’t exist inside the Vatican as Lodges but after the Second World War they were granted four Lodges, a whole Grand Lodge set up in the Vatican with their own different Loggia, with an official charter coming from America. You know?

So the thing is there was also obviously an embracing also from the Vatican of what they have always embraced, which has been to be themselves head of these aristocratic families, themselves also involved with the Zionist families. Why? Because they were the bankers, so there had to be somebody who had to sponsor other people. There was a bank and the bank is a very important thing for the Vatican – in fact, I.O.R. The finance of the I.O.R. are fundamental for the Vatican. (I.O.R. - Istituto per le Opere Religiose; Institute for Religious Works).

And we go back to the disinformation of before – Secretum Omega. What is so important that people have to realize that the Vatican is hiding somethin? But what is actually the Vatican hiding? The Vatican is hiding books and important rituals of evocation...

KC: What about the third secret of Fatima?

LZ: [Dismissive] Secret of Fatima! That is a...

KC: Is the Vatican hiding this, or no?

LZ: The thing is this... the Vatican constructs miracles for their own purpose to establish a place where people go, spend money on hideous things like make a cross...make cash, a couple of holy waters, then so you have Lourdes, Fatima... Then you have Padre Pio now.

KC: So in other words it’s just a show to make money. Is this your... There is no secret?

LZ: No, there are secrets... that at times these people have been in contact with entities. OK? Or they have opened an inter-dimensional door with an entity that has come through and has revealed to them certain secrets. For them, certain things, certain prophecies, are very important because at times… That’s why the Jesuits are in Mount Graham also with their astronomical observatory. They have to calculate exactly because they want to avoid some times that the prophecy comes against them in any way.

If the prophecy becomes enemy of their own project, then at that point, that prophecy has to be scrapped off the map; the people that...the prophecy can’t come into being. Why? Because they’re there making sure that that kid, if it’s born that day, dies. Why? Because that kid will be an enemy of their Order – and it’s already for them...So there has been…

KC: Who is the Black Pope?

LZ: The Black Pope is the General of the Jesuits. As I said, his power is very strong because the SIV, as we mentioned before, is just a small creation of what is the Jesuits’ Intelligence apparatus, which is very important.

KC: OK, but who is he? Specifically? What’s his name?

LZ: Adolph Nicolas is the Black Pope now. It's known. It's an official thing.

KC: OK. And is he going to be the Black Pope of Revelations?

LZ: No-no-no. Then you have the Black Pope of Revelation. That doesn’t need to be… There is, you see, there is a confusion here. There is always an element of confusion. And why? Because when you have two elements, then you usually show... choose the wrong one and the right one gets left untouched.

So everybody’s focused: "Ah! The Black Pope of Revelation is the Black Pope of the Jesuits." Me personally, which I know the Jesuits very well as I have demonstrated, and I know the Freemasons very well and their whole apparatus – I can tell you the Black Pope is not the General of the...I mean it is the General of the Jesuits and it is very important. But he is NOT the one of Revelation because the one of Revelation is black. He’s from Nigeria. He’s already a Cardinal. He’s already been put in the post that used to be of Ratzinger. He’s already there, ready to become the next Pope.

KC: And his name is?

LZ: I used to remember his name, but I’m sorry, the names, sometimes…

KC: OK.
[picture shown of Francis Arinze, Cardinal Bishop of Velletri-Segni... the next Pope]

LZ: ...but it’s very easy to find.

KC: What is his role? In 2012? Is this the year of Revelation, 2012?

LZ: The important thing is that they reflect the prophesies. They make them happen for their own advantage. Now the Jesuits, with their own Black Pope, which is obviously the figure of the Jesuit General, which is very important I don’t, I never underestimate a figure who is a very important one – are sometimes as powerful as the Pope because they have been so important as an Order and because they have the esoteric knowledge and they have the knowledge and access to those interdimensional doors.

That’s why Halgon is very... naturally, Halgon’s a Jesuit. He’s in an astronomical observatory in Mount Graham or he's in the library in the Vatican. What is he? Taking care of...If you can’t check a book in the secret archive of the Vatican because they are there protecting it. At the same time they are in charge of the observatory. This should make it very clear that when they deliberately spread, through this guy Barbato, this disinformation, regarding the secretum-omega and Planet X, we should at least question it. Because I can…

KC: OK. What is the purpose, though? Barbato... we have just interviewed a journalist who has worked with Barbato, and getting his information out – OK? – Luca Scantamburlo and basically this is a very open, innocent, genuine, honest guy.

LZ: But the Jesuits take advantage of a fool like him in two minutes! You have to be a little bit awake about this sort of thing. I'm telling you...

KC: OK. This is true of Barbato as well? Because Barbato is now out of a job. He cannot get work, all because of this.

LZ: Barbato by his own assertions, OK, he says: “I," in the year 2000, or 2001 actually to be more precise, "came into contact with a Jesuit.”

KC: Right.

LZ: I mean, if I come into contact with a Jesuit. Actually I make a picture, a photo. I put on the web. I met a Jesuit friend. That’s it. Check it out because whatever comes out…

KC: Supposedly he came forward from SIV. He was not supposed to be communicating. It’s secret, supposedly. No?

LZ: No-no-no. There is no … He called it scheggia impazzita. [Ed. note: rough translation: a loose cannon]. So, a rebel of the system within the SIV in the Vatican.

KC: Right.

LZ: It doesn’t exist, such a thing. Forget it.

KC: But you’re a rebel.

LZ: No-no. I’m out. I’m not in.

KC: But you were a rebel. You were inside during, at some point when you…

LZ: Barbato says I went to the office in Rome where he was accredited and where I saw that he was a legitimate source.

KC: Right.

LZ: That’s it.

KC: That’s it?

LZ: You think that with my revelations now, I can still GO in an office so high up, or BE in that office? I mean, my revelations are very clear for everyone, it's clear also for the Jesuits... In fact, the thing is, they arrested me three times in Norway. They tortured me, injected me, beaten me up, put in prison cell. They did all kinds of things to me.

KC: How did you get out?

LZ: Thank God I got out because the first two times I repented that was the Illuminati system and who was my superior and I said: "OK, sorry, I’m gonna not go [unclear: further with this]."

KC: But you already are, you're not...

LZ: No-no-no-no-no. Wait. Then the third time was when I officially came out of the system of, came out of the group was after June 2006 – I told you prior – because of the involvement that they wanted me to have with my wife’s organization. So I said: "OK, no." I started to accuse them of being, themselves, a fraud, that their inter-religious gatherings... Because here we are talking, and my documentation that I will show you, about inter-religious gatherings that were organized in monasteries around Italy for the specific purpose of trying to bring closer Islam… or the Illuminati with the concept of Islam and be able to have also what happened many centuries ago – a meeting between knighthoods of the East and the West; so basically between the Islamic Chivalry Orders and the Christian.

KC: And is this bad?

LZ: Oh, this was created. This was all created.

KC: Right.

LZ: But the thing was that there were people like Giorgio Balestrieri in it that they were only involved because they wanted to make a buck by selling a few weapons and other technology. [Kerry laughs] I didn’t know that I was carrying out for just the crooks.

KC: I see.

LZ: The moment that I realized that this was only crookery done upon me, that I was the victim of these people, that, for example… Here. Watch. [goes through documents]

KC: But you say you were tortured. Please tell me, how did you get away?

LZ: Here, the victim here. For example [shows document to camera] on the left side you have a documentation of a meeting held in Bologna, Villa Leona. OK? Now Villa Leona is the headquarters of the Opus Dei in Bologna and this was a meeting with the Illuminati. Roberto Negrini – you can see his name very clearly, which he's also officially an anti-Christian and a Satanist, but in the Opus Dei headquarters, you know, like holy water and devil all together in one group. You see the symbols of the Universal Unity of the Monte Carlo Lodge here and you see clearly the reference and also the name of Carlo Maria Baserga, which is the head there of the Opus Dei and been involved in the business of the Opus Dei that they did in the Port of Genoa.

Also recently, as recently as last June, this came up in an investigation of the police in Italy, but they have scrubbed off my name out of the phone interception. But I have photos with all those people I can show you.

KC: OK, but…

LZ: But also here. Watch here. This is another invitation. Now this was supposed to be the “meetings of meetings.” This meeting here was supposed to be held in September in the monastery of Santa Scolastica, a very important monastery. You can find this monastery on the first scene of Omen III.

KC: OK?

LZ: The film. Omen III? You can find it, this monastery. This monastery was the last place where Ratzinger talked before becoming Pope. In this monastery we were supposed to meet with my wife also there, representing her Islamic organization, and with Gabriele Mandelcano who is a Sufi ... [unclear: deity]... and, basically, with these people. We were also with ... [unclear: Dottore Aldicaldi]... who is a high level Freemason, to celebrate the Giordano Bruno – which we mentioned before – death. Death. It’s written there.

KC: OK. But you’re still telling me that you got away. You’re telling me that…

LZ: This one in September never happened. It was cancelled because in June I walked out of the organization.

KC: I understand. But you said you’ve been arrested. We know that you’ve been harassed.

LZ: Yes.

KC: Right? And I’m just asking you, how do you get away from the Illuminati?

LZ: OK. What happened was I needed to get away to save my life. So the only way to get away to save my life was to eventually reveal – and keep safely with me this information – and reveal it to the appropriate sources so I could defend myself.

KC: Who are the appropriate sources?

LZ: People like you.

KC: The general public.

LZ: What happened was this. In October, September of 2006, after my kid was born and I recovered from the arrest, which was pretty mind-breaking, and I managed to get out. Why? Because I managed to prove to the authorities here in Norway that what I was saying was true regarding my involvement in certain groups, that they were deliberately trying to attack me and that there was even a guy, a doctor, involved, a guy called Nicolaj Dematos Frisvold who is the head of a mental hospital here in Norway that in reality was related to a General Frisvold and also himself a master of the Memphis-Misraim. I have on my diploma of the Memphis-Misraim… you find I have his name written very clearly and, basically, we find that this guy is an occultist practicing voodoo and whatever. You can check on the Internet for yourself. And he’s also a doctor. How can a doctor in a mental hospital be that? But what he did was very evil. The moment I didn’t agree with him… poof… he lifts the phone: Gonna lock him up.

KC: Uh huh. OK. So but you got…

LZ: But when I showed this documentation at the end to the proper sources, the director of the hospital there, was a guy who was not the one the year before who I knew was working with the CIA but was another guy, and this time he didn’t know really what was happening. I could see that he was only put from on top in that situation.

KC: OK.

LZ: I could show my documentation and get out of the situation. So I got out and I said: How can I save my life? Because, OK, for the moment they are not arresting me any more. I’m gonna come out with a website, I’m gonna scan a few things, documents, open a blog. That happened with illuminaticonfessions on squarespace.com.

Squarespace.com was a blog, OK, kind of situation and after a month I started to have a lot of problems because they received tides of complaints and of threats to shut down the website. So on the 6th December 2006 I was shut down. I was shut down, all my information was risking to be lost because I had to work on it, I’m not a genius of the computer, I just put, scramble together all these things and... But the interest was already born and thank God people had downloaded... Some friends, some people I don’t know on the Internet, had downloaded my material. They managed to retrieve it, transfer it on the website in Italy of a Freemason, Daniele del Bosco, a Freemason, though, that was himself conscious of what they were doing and he himself said: I want to support it. Because I think that…" You know, he saw the injustices I was subject to, also [unclear]. So he said: "OK, Leo, we open Illuminati Confession on the web," which is "IlluminatiConfessions.webfriend.it", which is still in existence, "and we go on with your revelations."

Not even 24 hours after they shut down my squarespace account, the police came through the door of my house with two policemen, and two social workers to take my kids. I was living in the center of Oslo at the time. My wife was in the house. They probably thought I was alone. So they broke in but when they saw that my wife was there they said: "OK, we’ll bring you to the other room. We want to..."
Bring me to the other room? I said: "What? What do you want to do to me? Only because I have a website you want to arrest me? Am I not free to do what I want?" I said: "My dear friend, in the last 24 hours I spread my website to Italy,"I said.
"If you now arrest me, kill me, do whatever you want, the website is gonna stay alive. It is now on the Net. There is no way you can shut it down., Ah!"
But the police said: "If you continue with this website, we can, you know, have your kids taken from you and you have to come down with this stuff.
How dare the police of Norway? I say it once again to the camera and to the people of Norway – shame on you! Come to my door, come to my house, threaten me to take my kids because they can’t take the truth about their Christian Krogh, executive of Ministry of Defense who I saw in an open Lodge worshipping the Book of the Dead and the Stele of Revealing of Aleister Crowley, dressed in a black cloak?

I saw Trond Kaare Westby, the head of the Defense Command in Norway, in their Lodges and also Masonic Lodges where I met him and this guy is the head of the Defense Command in Norway, of the medical staff. I will show you after this…

KC: So you got away because you went public? Is this correct?

LZ: I went public. I went public and I even [unclear] they began to threaten me at that point, even after I said to them: "Listen, even if you threaten me now," I said openly to the policemen and also my wife went to the social workers because we had to go to the social workers after. Otherwise they would take our kids… said very clearly: "My husband is not gonna stop with what he’s doing. He will carry on. If this is a free country, he has to do this and he has to be able to do this."

KC: Sure, um hum.

LZ: At that point they couldn’t arrest me anymore like before or force me and torture me for hours and do whatever. Because at that point I would go immediately on the Net as soon as I was out, put them… Finally I had an audience.

KC: Right.

LZ: Obviously the problem was: who was my audience? The problem was that my audience was maybe not judged as serious by many people because the alternative media sometimes is not judged as serious. But for me at least it was a means to spread my information to be able to protect myself. And they took this very seriously. In fact, what happened... two weeks later, I was invited to Livorno, the 21st December to a P2 lodge in Livorno – I have pictures of that meeting also – by their Grand Master there asking me, only in a nice kind way, he offered me a nice beer, to "please stop with those revelations."

KC: Ahhh. Really?

LZ: But the guy who asked me, Grand Master Mauro Lazzari and Luigi Piazza, because I refused, they were punished themselves and in June just now, 2007, the police raided their headquarters of the Masonic Orders, and there is documentation in Livorno. It was the biggest scandal since the P2 because it’s connected also to the Christian Democratic Party because their Lodge, where I was meeting, was the headquarters of the Christian Democratic Party (now renamed UDC) of Cesa, [Ed. note: refers to Lorenzo Cesa, leader of the UDC] which is the party close to the Vatican. So obviously you don’t need to be a genius to make one plus one is two, you know. You have a Masonic Lodge in the headquarters of the Christian Democratic Party.

These people in the Christian Democratic Party have been working with the NSA, the CIA, for 50 years in the GLADIO. The GLADIO is a secret operation. These people Balestrieri, Ezio Giunchiglia… but these people all belong to GLADIO. GLADIO is a secret operation against communism that has been very important because 9/11 has been the same kind of operation that the Italians have seen over and over again in the strategic ‘years of tension’ we call them... In the ’70s when we have the killings of the station of Bologna, of Piazza Fontana, all these things were organized by so-called deviant secret services apparatus, nobody understood whoever it was: maybe the Red Brigade? It was the Russians?

KC: So who was it?

LZ: It was the Americans and the Vatican! You know. Who was it? [laughs] Doing it on themselves. GLADIO was an operation…

KC: And so was 9/11 also the Americans and the Vatican?

LZ: Absolutely. And the Zionists. And the Mossad. The Mossad was very important in this thing. In fact [unclear]

KC: sure.

KC: So is the idea to create a…basically...?

LZ: [unclear, but possibly ...they enact] the prophecy. Because in the Zohar, at a specific point of the Zohar, it is written that in the “City of the Big Towers,” in the specific date [unclear] of the Jewish calendar – that was the 11th of September – told there would be this disaster. The tower will fall down. It’s written in the Zohar. Zohar, for the kabbalists, is the most holy text for the kabbalists. So they did knock their heads on the wall, and reflect: "What is that?" Now, as we have the most savage Zionist element, the Jewish occult element, is very important because the kabbalah is born out of them, but born originally where? From Egypt.

KC: Sure.

LZ: And the same happened with… because we don’t have to see only Christianity or Catholicism as coming only from Judaism. No, that’s very wrong. We have to see Christianity as coming from a mix of pagan religions that the Emperor Constantine put together including the cult of Isis, of Osiris, of Mithras, of all these various…

KC: But this was from Atlantis, was it not?

LZ: All originally from Atlantis, but Atlantis and many other Atlantis civilizations before that because the thing is that we have only knowledge about maybe one ancient civilization before ourselves, but there are many others that have been eliminated and we know nothing about it.

Bill Ryan (BR) [off camera]: Leo, I wanted to ask you... Do the Masons or the Illuminati have ancient texts coming directly from Atlantis? Do they have information about this? Or is it legend?

LZ: [unclear] This is the legend that really manage to throw [unclear: into the church] with this kind of thing, it is quite interesting. The Book of Thoth, some kind of tablets, ancient tablets that come from Atlantis were supposed to be hidden in the Pyramids, hidden there. There is definitely stuff that comes from ancient times and there is specific groups within the Illuminati like, for example, the Group of Thebes, which is a specific group within the Illuminati which takes care only of the ancient artifacts and the same...

KC: And these must be in the Vatican? They’re in the Vatican library, are they not?

LZ: The Vatican library and we have a lot of ancient artifacts, ancient books, very rare texts that could revolutionize the thought of mankind but, as I said, because we will have to go to the next stage of existence in one way or another, the Vatican wants to adapt. So how they adapt? They adapt with Corrado Balducci and the whole alien revolution coming into the Vatican! It’s incredible. One man and couple of UFOs and everybody’s happy.

Because the next step of brainwashing is to have you believe that Jesus is some kind of Prince of Sirius that comes on this planet as a high priest and is himself an alien being or some kind of alien high priest from Sirius. Sirius is very important. We now have to jump to Sirius. Because Sirius is serious in every way. The word says it. It’s, in the universal apparatus, the Eye of God. You know, you have a bunch of sheep which are the stars…

KC: OK. So …

LZ: No, no, watch – shepherd. Then you have a dog. Now, the dog star is Sirius – is the dog, there are a lot of stars there, they are the sheep and you have a shepherd and you have a shepherd’s dog. So this is how it works in the universe. So we should go back to reacquire in modern times the concept of analogies, of not logic, but analogies. Why? Because logic is actually created by mankind. It was created by mankind at the time of ancient Greece and then filtered through our civilization through to us. But in ancient times analogic was equally as important. So by rediscovering the analogic method, the parallels between the fact that everything in the universe works as a mirror, as a reflection, a reflection of the one big bang, the first [makes gesture of explosion outward]… and then everything else is a reflection. So there is a constant loop of this reflection in many different forms, infinite loop that goes through the universe and we find [lifts coffee cup] in this cup, we find in this [unclear: regaraded parade]

KC: Sure and you’re talking about symbolism and you’re talking about the use of symbols as magic and again you’re back in the circle.

LZ: Yes, but, as I said, if we really want the next stage then we have to acknowledge the science of God. OK. No problem. That has to be done because sooner or later mankind will have to come out of this ignorance. At the moment what we are having is just some substitutes, especially in the New Age movement, all the cults that are being created lately.

KC: OK. But what about science and what about the idea that there might be Planet X or some other planet out there? Is this completely a figment of peoples’ imaginations based on something that the Illuminati wants to put out there for their purposes of Revelation and Armageddon?

LZ: From my experience of the whole Zechariah Sitchin, like I mentioned before, from my experience and from what Barbato said about the Secretum Omega and all this information coming out of the alternative media, it’s clear that they want to control the alternative media and they want to control also our own myths. Nibiru... this planet of ancient times from Sumeria – it was called Nibiru in Sumerian times – Planet X, coming back, you know. Then when it comes, these Anunnakis are dropped out of the planet onto us and have a… There is definitively an ancient time in which we have been merging with other creatures from the universe.

This is described clearly in the Book of Enoch. But who were these creatures? These creatures were the rebels that were escaping, the rebel angels that were escaping from God, in a way. What we have here in this present situation is that we think they are, in reality, interbreeds between mankind and aliens. This is the most… the biggest disinfo… that we can get.

KC: OK. If you believe that’s disinfo then let’s talk about underground bases. Why do we have underground bases, since you say that in your experience they do exist?

LZ: In my experience they do exist and there do exist also people that are particularly inclined in working on these underground bases because you can experiment bacteriological, nuclear, and all kinds of devices that are not possible to be experimented overground. And also to experiment the most evil of the evil because mankind nowadays is playing God, playing with genes, playing with mixing a cow with a dog, with a human, with a lion, with a… it's [unclear: frightening...]

KC: But what about… You’re saying genetic engineering, you’re saying hidden, you know, atomic bombs, whatever, experimentation. But why are they building cities underground?

LZ: This is for the disaster scenario, the Doomsday scenario.

KC: Well, is there such a thing?

LZ: Yes. There is a Doomsday... Yes, because...

KC: What is that? Is this a real scenario or is this fake?

LZ: From my experience in the Illuminati, the moment in which 2012 was mentioned was either because 2012, the 21st December was the peculiar date in which a ritual had to start – a Pythagoras ritual – because Freemasons trace their ancestry to Pythagoras as their faith.

KC: Pythagoras...

LZ: Yes. Pythagoras. For them the fact that this 25,920 is the number of God and it coincides with the changing of an era, has to be celebrated with a ritual that reflects above/ below. So on the 21st December you’re gonna all see them there with their aprons and thing. It's a holy day. It's the winter equinox but not ...

KC: But do we see a cataclysm?

LZ: The whole pyramid will be together. For the first time every single character will be celebrating one way or another this specific day because we are moving the whole of our consciousness into a different part of the universe here.

KC: So this is a positive vision of the future, isn’t it?

LZ: I have a definitely positive vision of the future, but I also have some questions regarding how the so-called Illuminati is all just really faking things. Because when it was about 2012, they were really driven by uncertainty and their tendency was to build an underground bunker to protect their matter interests – than to really grasp that this could be an evolutionary stage to go…

KC: Of consciousness, a change of consciousness.

LZ: Yes.

KC: You don’t need an underground base for a change of consciousness.

LZ: No-no-no. But for them, this is a business operation. You know, I understand. The moment you wish there is something happening on top which is uncontrollable, a nuclear device will be triggered, the whole place will be very dangerous and underground bases are required for those people.

KC: So you’re saying the Illuminati are planning to let loose nuclear bombs around the time of 2012. They are going to unleash them?

LZ: There will be some very big happenings, especially because they will be triggered by… Unfortunately, some very serious events might happen around the Olympics of 2012, in England, which seems to be…

KC: In England? in 2012? OK. So what about the 2008, the Olympics in China? Do you know anything about that?

LZ: That is a mind, brainwashing, control operation of the Chinese. The Chinese represent the ideal government for the Illuminati, for who wants to do business. Because the Illuminati, including these people here, all mentioned before, they all meet up in Shanghai to do this business. One of the rituals which I’m going to show you, after, is one of the rituals of the ancient Chinese tea, which is not a tea, but is a kind of specific drink, a drink from a little village, that gives you immortality. Actually it gives you a lot of energy. It is like 20 ginseng all together, like a line of cocaine. There is specific water they drink from this village and a specific plant which they make this tea and everybody was enjoying it in Moscow, much more than any drug – yes? – and I found this very interesting. They were doing the classic, traditional Chinese tea ritual, you know. But what is the admiration of the West for the Chinese is especially their absence of any form of democracy, their complete control of their society.

For America, being like China is a dream nowadays because... Why? Because the American dictators that are implementing now their so-called Patriot Act. They see in China the ideal place where nobody can actually object to anything; you can’t have more than one child. But at the same time this also gives the Americans and the people at the fake opposition, because America is not really in opposition to China. Forget it. They want to make cash with China; they want to make cash with Iran; Iran wants to make cash with America, cash with China. So who cares? They make the cash – a couple of Hollywood stars [unclear: put iron in their food]. Bullshit! People are idiots, you know? Giving money to these idiots and putting them in power. My god. I don’t understand. Democracy is the biggest illusion of all time. It doesn’t exist. It doesn’t exist. And the division between church and state is a fake. It doesn’t exist. It’s all linked … all linked and...

KC: And it’s all run by the Vatican and the Jesuits are at the top of the pyramid?

LZ: I know and I forgot to mention lots of the Zionists which are very involved in this whole... [unclear: entrave] which represents the old aristocracy of the… You know, the old Jewish families are the old aristocracy. Why? Because these aristocratic families, like for example the Queen of England, like to trace themselves back to King David. They see themselves, including my family, the Lyon family, as descendents either of Jesus or at least of King David. So they seem to be viewing in England, in general, a bit like the lost tribe of Israel.

So that’s why you have this British Zionism, and also why the aristocrats in England interbred so much with the Jews, and certain Jewish families, so to create this whole thing. So we are back, at the end, you don’t understand anymore who is in control of anything because this line with him, and this line is there...

KC: We’re running out of time here.

LZ: Well, you can see, when they are giving the Nobel Peace Prizes, especially in Sweden, they have a whole table of leading Zionist Jewish families, and you have the aristocrats. Everything is in order, you know, and this New World Order has a specific place too.

KC: OK, well thank you Leo. You’re a very brave man. Obviously, you’re going up against an incredible opponent and you…

LZ: I think I am going up, definitely, against an opponent because for certain people they fall into the trap of becoming victims of it and this I think is happening a bit to the Barbato guy with the Secretum Omega. It is easy to become victim of this whole deceitful operation, of this mind control that is going on for certain projects. For example, there was a guy who was deliberately made... er...given disinformation regarding the Cosmic Top Secret level of NATO, saying that he was linked with the recovering of…

KC: You’re talking about Robert Dean, the person we interviewed.

LZ: Yes. A guy like him. I didn’t know you interviewed him, but I heard about him many times. I think he’s a typical example of how you can fall victim of these people, because at that point they give you certain information. They know they have given this to you. They have showed you certain things. They have showed you just enough – OK – poof…

And then the rest of the life, what you do? You get kicked out all your jobs, you get to become the victim – obviously. But at the same time, what you saw and what really you are reporting, is it really true or is it a cover-up and an operation to cover up other interests by the powers that are there, and by the people on top of you? They know, obviously, very well how to mind-control people and how to spread disinformation.

We said before, some people call them, in another way, aliens, UFOs; you said it’s only a matter of calling them in different ways. Yes. But by calling them aliens and UFO, and by spreading the myth of Roswell and all that, what has happened is just that people, the modern day, the average person out there, watching TV, gets brainwashed by all this rubbish. And at the end of the day he’s not really understanding that there is humans, there is angels, there is God and if there is an End of Time scenario, this is a very serious scenario. It should be taken very seriously.

KC: OK. That's it. Do you have any more? OK. Say that one more time and then... "This scenario...", say your last line one more time.

LZ: And this scenario is definitely very important if we are approaching the End of Times and some great changes will be definitely happening. But for them to brainwash about the aliens and all that, when instead the real intention is to just microchip you and put in a global network in which you are the prisoner. That is their objective.

Bill Ryan (off camera): I want to ask one final question. What events can you expect in the next 4 or 5 years on planet Earth?

Leo Zagami (LZ): Planet Earth in the next few years will see definitely some very big events. Starting from 2010 which is the end of a 13-year cycle, we will have some great crashes, especially in the economic field. And this will lead to, also, an oil crisis in the year 2012. There will be some triggering moments that really will change also the way we live in the next few years. Because at some point-- if they lose control of us-- then the war will start, a civilian war, a counter-insurgence.

But this, at the moment, seems to me very far from it because the majority of people out there are quite happy with their technological gadgets that give them the possibility of this modern life that they think is WOW, is incredible and that is bringing to them some advantages that their ancestors didn’t have.

Well it’s all rubbish. We’re actually polluting our food, our food tastes rubbish compared to 50 years ago. If you want to buy good food you have to buy the organic one but you spend four times as much. All of this is made to make cash and at the same time to make us spend more money. And the quality of life is not necessarily increased with the fact that I have the internet or I have the phone, I can call all over the world. Who cares if you can call all over the world?

Kerry Cassidy (KC): OK. But you are saying that there will be a change in consciousness. That it is anticipated around 2012.

LZ: I think what we will see, at least in the Illuminati, from my experience, what they will see, in their eyes, is that they have to implement the End of Times scenario with a messiah, with somebody that can take the place of a guiding force for some spiritual arena. Because, you see, if I reveal to you the next stage of mankind in science – and this next stage in science is linked with the spiritual – that’s when the material guys want to have control of the spiritual completely otherwise they will lose their power over humanity. So that’s why they’re preparing this holy charade, you know, where every now and then we have more disinformation. Like, for example, Dan Brown. Dan Brown is the king of disinformation, you know?

I still have part of the Knights Templar that is connected to me and is in favor of what I’m doing, though it’s a minority with respect to the majority of the members.

KC: OK. A scenario for the future, like 2012, that the Illuminati has-- what their plans are?

LZ: Yes. The calculations are that after 2012 we’re going to have 7 years of tribulation -- this really brings us to 2019-- the 7 years of tribulation in which we will have the coming of the messiah. Now you have to understand that the coming of the messiah has been, in a way, opposed and that’s why the Jesuits control the astronomic and control very closely the stars in order to know where any possibility of the rebirth of Christ might occur, of the rebirth of Jesus within certain bloodlines. So they have been searching these bloodlines, tracing any possible heir to this throne which is the throne of the kingdom of God on Earth. And they have made extensive research upon this.

Now 2015 should be the key date in when Jesus comes to Jerusalem and starts revealing himself to the masses. So let’s say that the years that definitely go between 2012 and 2019 are the years of the great tribulation and great changes. There is also in the Jewish law certain years that have to be used in order to announce the Law. 2012 is one of those years in which the law can be announced. Then there are certain years in which you can’t announce the law. So even if a messiah came, he would not be able to talk. So the messiah has to come in a specific…

KC: Yes. So the messiah… he has to already be born now if he’s gonna even, you know, talk to people. He can’t just be a child in 2012.

LZ: Yeah. Absolutely. The messiah has been already born. But is he a messiah, or is he an anti-Christ? That’s the thing. Because up until now we have seen that the attempts of the New World Order to create a messiah failed. Like Alice Bailey tried with Krishnimurti and that failed completely, you know. They made this attempt …

KC: And Jack Parsons, right?

LZ: Jack Parsons tried to make the anti-Christ more than making the messiah [laughs].

KC: Well, the child, you know… right?

BR [off camera]: Is it already known who this messiah is?

LZ: You have the messiah and then you have the anti-Christ.

KC: Do you believe this?

LZ: [long pause] I believe that the scriptures contain an amount of truth because, you see, within certain families, within certain bloodlines, then it reoccurs that certain people have the possibility to have a message that is important for mankind. This happens to reoccur from time to time in certain families.

Now that’s also where the study of the eugenics, the study of the bloodlines, and that’s where the mixing of the bloodlines…it’s very important for the Illuminati to create strategic alliances. Now the biggest strategic alliance that could be created at this time is a strategic alliance that would require unifying the Knights Templar’s Christian alignment with the Muslim Knights and their own alignment to their own End of Times and the mahdi. So the coming of the mahdi, so the coming also of the Christ-figure for them at the End of Times, is actually something that occurs in the Koran. So the holy text [unclear: Don De Fe]. And the same for the Jews. They also have a specific, you know, idea of what the messiah should or should be not. But in any case, Aleister Crowley announced that the messiah could, would not be, in any case, Jewish by birth, “pure Jewish” as they would say, you know? And also they would love to take the 'mick' out of the head rabbi in New York. Telling him: "OK."

But I also tell you he was not the anti-Christ, because he was the big [inaudible]. An anti-Christ will come, there will be a false prophet. There will be certain characters. I think that during the course of times, characters happen to reoccur. So we have many anti-Christs, many false prophets. But at the End of Time you have a very strong reflection of it.

KC: I...

LZ: So I think it's very concise with the...

KC: You’re talking about analogic thought.

LZ: Analogic thought

KC: And is not the bible and is not some of this philosophy of the Illuminati much more analogy? You’re talking about the coming of a Christ consciousness but not necessarily a Christ figure.

LZ: But for the Illuminati the important thing is to mix the two things, to have the Christ consciousness inside a human being that can be a manifestation of that consciousness.

KC: That they can control.

LZ: No. Well, they would like to control, but God doesn’t ever let things happen in the traditional way as mankind likes to always take control and hopefully, as I said before, they would like to even control if sometimes if there is the birth of something dangerous to them, they try to eliminate it, so they don’t have any problems.

And that could be, for example, when Princess Diana was having her child from Dodi Al Fayed. See, that would have created a problem – Muslim into the holy Christian background of, you know, this reigning family, which is one of the most important we have in the “Sacred Roman Empire” bloodline, which is the British royal family. So that would have been very difficult. What I said before, the solution, the mix of the blood, they mix the Christian, mix the Muslim, but the Muslim has to be the descendents of the prophet Mohammed, so a specific bloodline has to be captured for that operation.

KC: So are you saying this person has been chosen and the birth has already happened?

LZ: These things are done between people who don’t talk much and they don’t talk because if they talk, mankind will always say: "Ahhh …. It’s not true; I don’t believe in this, I don’t believe in that." It’s not a matter of discussion for the Illuminati because we know from inside working with these things that this is not a matter of assumptions, it is a matter of science. So if you do certain operations and the result is correct, mankind can’t do anything.

KC: Alright, you're talking about genetic engineering of a…

LZ: Nah nah nah… that is the antichrist.

KC: OK

LZ: I can create the antichrist with genetic engineering. That is not a problem. That is very easy.

KC: But you cannot create a Christ.

LZ: But the Christ is a different thing. Christ is up to God to give us the final opportunity that this character will come into being, you know. So...

KC: Do you believe such a thing will happen?

LZ: I believe it definitely will happen.

KC: OK. The Illuminati definitely believe this.

LZ: Absolutely. The chosen one is always a recurring theme within the Illuminati. If I show you, after, some books from inside the Illuminati environment, he’s already chosen. His space in the council of 12 – his space has been chosen: “Master. You’re returning to greet us again with your mastership.” He’s already there, in a sense. For the majority of people, though, to realize suddenly that we’re not all the same, that certain bloodlines have this function, wow, it’s the end of democracy. It’s also the end of a whole realization that we are all the same. Basically, its the end of communism. Guys, under the truth -- there is no communism in this universe. Because this is a pyramid. From God to us is a hierarchy and the structure is always going to stay a hierarchy because…

KC: Are you saying the hierarchy is a bloodline, you believe in this even though you left the Illuminati?

LZ: No, I left the Illuminati, but I can’t leave the bloodlines. The thing is, the bloodlines have to change themselves and embrace the positive in order for us to have another messenger like Mohammed, blessing be upon him; like Jesus, blessing be upon him; like Moses. Certain characters can come out if eventually they have the possibility of coming out. But obviously, if they are boycotted from outside then it’s worth rethinking of the tale of the grand inquisitor. You know this tale? If I come out and say tomorrow morning that I’m Jesus, I’m going to have very big problems and in ancient times…

KC: Well isn’t it true that this is going to be the nature of anyone who comes forward anyway?

LZ: He’ll be locked up. After two minutes his secret will be judged as dangerous.

BR [off camera]: Is there a control scenario to reduce the world’s population drastically?

LZ: You see, there is another thing that definitely is to do with the resources more than to do with … Objectively, the Illuminati wants to do money on us. They are heading the corporates, the secret societies, are making business on us. So for them, they don’t have a program to eliminate us. But the problem is the heads of the whole thing. When they see that there is missing the resources for all of us to be living at the same time, then they have to eliminate parts of the population. In that case, they bring in the weapons, they bring in the wars that can make sure, or the disasters, that can make sure that the population gets decreased.

BR: Is this in progress at the moment?

LZ: You asked me before about the underground bases and my experience is that they actually not only exist, but they are being held for maybe an upcoming scenario which is going to be apocalyptic. There seems to be in the Illuminati a firm belief that the coming back of Christ will coincide with a series of disasters that will change the face of the Earth forever, including the possibility of the elimination of ¾ of the population of mankind.

But this is not Man who is deciding this. This is only God that can decide this. I hope that they will make clever use of these bases. But they are being really evil. They are even stationing the seeds of the future generations in a base up north. They’re doing obscene things that in the eyes of God are an insult to anything.

I want to say, the solution will come at the end, but these people will be defeated. And they will be defeated with a long war. But this long war… Unfortunately for the Americans, will have to be fought and many lives will have to fall for it. So, we can’t fight a war without dead people on the ground. At the end, there will be a war and there will be dead people on the ground because the moment they want to microchip me, I’m gonna take out a gun and shoot at them. [laughs] That’s the thing, you know?

It’s time to be a bit realistic. In this conspiracy movement, we haven’t seen sometimes much realism. How we embrace the future? I have people, patriots, from America calling me every two minutes: "Are we already here? Are we this, that, weapon we have, we’re building a big bunker here, another thing there. We are ready for this." Ready for what?

You are a few hundred people or a few thousand. OK. You can have an enormous stash of weapons preparing for an Armageddon scenario but at the end of the day it’s worth nothing in front of the fact that we have the military here involved, the weapon dealers, the occult. People don’t even know what the occult is. I don’t need to talk with people who don’t know what the occult is. What is that? This is the organization for the methodical sale of weapons. How they have to be sold, when they have to be sold, when they are to be built and how they have to be developed for the selling. Then, you know, the old weapons always go to the African countries. We always give them a couple of old weapons.

But the thing is this: the weapon business is the big business to make the cash. I was a rich man when I was in that kind of business. Now I’m a poor man. Why? The difference is now I’m an honest man. Before, I was a crook. [laughs]

KC: Uh hmmm. Thank you, Leo. [Laughter from everyone]

BR: As you now, we’re also here to meet with our Norwegian politician contact who went on record to talk about the involvement of Norway and the Norwegian politicians in some kind of scenario. Are you able to say anything to substantiate his testimony?

LZ: Yes. Absolutely.

BR: Because he stands alone at the moment. A lot people say that either he’s inventing it or that we’re inventing it.

LZ: Well, what I can say is, from my own experience, underground bases exist.

BR: He said he could name the bases.

LZ: Definitely there is bases here. I mean, there is a base in Oslo for over 2000 people. The entrances are in the west side of Oslo, in [inaudible]. There are some entrances toward the port in Trondheim. This is underground bases that are being constructed to protect the population in a situation of emergency. That is without no doubt. And at the same point, as I said, for various experiments, and to keep the gold. Because gold seems to be at the End of Times, if all the banks fall and everything falls into chaos, gold seems to be this hard, consistent currency that can be used for money.

Now, Norway has been for many years this kind of special deposit for money, this oil tax they call it, for a big deposit that needs to protect them for the times in which that finish their resource. That is the official, you know, statement. "Why are you putting all this money aside, taxing the people like heck, making us live in this way?" In Norway, everybody could be a millionaire, you know, if they released the money from the oil they are getting.

But instead it’s not like that. We are living… some people in Norway are even living on the verge of poverty because these people have to build the bunkers, have to construct all this… And at the moment in Norway, the military are increasing their line of control over people, over the technology. I have personally experienced the police. I have informants in the police at this moment of time that told me how they are developing and how they are working with ultimate technologies to control us. They are listening to us now. They are controlling every single moment. And they are able to now... on the verge of the revolution of the microchip, which is truly revolutionary for them, because at that point, the moment in which they chip us, then they can let the resources fall apart but they still have control of us. The cities can get out of control, can fall, the whole structure can be destroyed but we will still be monitored from the satellites.

That is something we have to keep in mind. So the moment of disaster for them is also the moment when they will have to keep control of the loose cannons running around otherwise there will be definitely the possibility of a true insurgence. So here in Norway we have already a passport with microchip. I don’t know if you have noticed it, if somebody has showed it to you.

KC: Uh hm.

LZ: But Norway is, like all Scandinavian countries, the one that in the Illuminati experiment represents a timer. Also regarding the mixing of races. For example, for a period of time – it is well known also within the NATO reports – that these countries specifically were kept out of contamination of immigration because their bloodlines had to be kept “pure,” you know. Great. Well, always to do with the bloodlines. Now the bloodlines are mixing up. The scenario is lost.

We have, those still in Norwegian Freemasonry, a bunch of degenerate Christian fundamentalists who are also Nazis, from my own personal experience. They say that in the war they fought the Nazis and they were great patriots and actually Himmler made a museum there, where you saw today the Grand Lodge, for a period of time to show how these people were… OK, this is a museum of the Freemasons who are controlled by the Zionists and are parts of this establishment. But they forgot to say that the Freemasons are actually controlled by the Vatican. The most enlightened brother of the Red Cross in Norway is the lowest degree who is linked to the Vatican and is approved by the Vatican.

Because this kind of Freemasonry is actually officially approved and every single ritual has been read because of the high content of esoteric knowledge, the Swedish system needed to be approved by the Vatican, because they have to leave the last blessing on top of this system. So a Freemason from France, an officer from France, went with all the rituals to the Pope and showed the Swedish Rite rituals and said: "You approve, Your Excellency, this ritual," etc. He approved. That’s it.

So if he approves this bunch of pagan, Egyptian nonsense and these kind of things, what kind of world is this? It’s a hypocrite world, where on one side they’re claiming to be monotheistic and believe in one God. On the other side they’re worshipping all kinds of gods. There is definitely a clash.

KC: What about Berlusconi?

LZ: Berlusconi is a well known P2 member.

KC: He’s trying to come back into power, right? In Italy?

LZ: He’s going to be back into power probably very soon. There is no alternative. Because there is no... because the church make this government fall down. And why is that? Why is it Prodi is now saying: "I’m going to take care of my grandsons. I’m leaving politics?" Because he did one wrong thing to the Pope and the Pope, the week after, make the government fall down. The Pope was supposed to have a lecture at the University of Rome, La Sapienza. This lecture couldn’t happen because of the opposition inside the university with all the people reminding, you know, that Giordano Bruno was burned on the stake, that Galileo was arrested, that a lot of things had happened. You know, that the Pope shouldn’t come to the Rome University right then. So he didn’t go.

But the week after he managed, with the Christian Democrats of Mastella, to make the government fall down. And Prodi now is gonna go and play cricket, you know, or play golf or whatever. I mean, he’s not gonna be anymore into the field of politics. Because he rebelled once? Well, he created this possibility of the Pope not going to the University. That’s not [inaudible]. That shows you the power of the Pope. The Pope doesn’t have to talk much. Prodi does one thing wrong, he’s out, scrapped off the books. [inaudible]. Whatever. He can do whatever he wants – [makes whistling noise indicating quick departure]. Now? He's no-one.

KC: So who’s coming into power in America? Do you know? Is it going to be Barack Obama?

LZ: Now in the last few days, if you go onto the internet, you will see that Rense.com and other websites, Illuminatinews.com, have published an article where I state that Barack Obama is a Prince Hall Freemason, 32-degree Freemason, and also CFR member. He has written a big article lately on this Council of Foreign Relations.

KC: OK. You said that earlier. But what about Hillary Clinton?

LZ: [laughs] She’s another [unclear - laughs] It’s like, you know, there is no difference, really, between these candidates, who they are, who is their background. People say: "Ah, but the guy is black." Bah, the guy is black. The guy is even related to Bush and Clinton, er to Bush and Dick Cheney, you know? It’s not really like we’re really searching for somebody who is, you know, coming from another planet. [Kerry laughs] He’s coming from the same environment. He’s a human, like everybody else, probably a more innocent guy than others, so he’s more easy to manipulate because the moment in which they want to implement true fascism is the moment in which they will make you believe that anti-fascism is in place. So to put Barack Obama as president and Hillary as vice president is a possibility that the Democratic convention might take — or visa-versa — depending on who is getting more votes at the end of this last er... whatever… next [unclear]

KC: OK. One last question for you …

LZ: But definitely McCain is not going to win. Why? Because Giorgio Balestrieri stated, he’s the Director of the Rotary of New York, this election, we support the Democrats. So Republicans are not in the least of support of the Illuminati. They can’t make it. McCain can climb walls, can do whatever he wants, he’s not gonna [unclear: be elected]. [Kerry laughs] Poor guy.

KC: OK. Leonardo DaVinci. Was he a member of the Illuminati or no?

LZ: Definitely [unclear] Illuminati, natural, you know. You can see he’s Illuminati. I mean, he’s Illuminati-- the whole concept around him, you know? The guy was a genius. The problem is, from there to make him the Grand Master of a Priory of Zion, is totally fictitious. What was the Priory of Zion? Priory of Zion was a society that was born in Mount Zion in Palestine where you have this Cathedral of Zion, whatever. And basically what happened was this. This order lasted for a very short period of time and people say: "Where is the Priory of Zion today?" Priory of Zion – if you go and search on the history books, has melted in with the Jesuits. It doesn’t exist anywhere.

The other six Priories of Zion that exist today is on the internet or whatever Plantard de Saint-Clair has created. Plantard de Saint-Clair was the biggest piles of rubbish and fraud and an agent of the Illuminati because he was an agent of GLADIO. He was like Licio Gelli. He wanted to create great myths, which he picked up from his friend Robert Ambelain, from the Martinists. He picked up the myth. Well, obviously the Martinists had created this church. It was the Kabbalistic Order of the Rose Cross that had created all the esoteric parts of the Rennes-le-Château church with Abbé Saunière.

He was a genuinely esoteric-interested guy. But all the rest is rubbish. Where he took all his money? Where? From the initiations that they were paying him because he was making that church profitable the moment in which he was inviting all these people to initiate themselves into high glorious rectified Scottish Rite, another peculiar Templar foundation of...that was created in a way mythological, fictitious, but had the ground of truth in it.

The Priory of Zion of Plantard St. Clair is also Catholic. The oldest people involved… I have a personal… and I can show you documents involved with the Priory of Zion… The people involved nowadays: Gino Sandri, the secretary of Plantard St. Clair, was a member of the Monte Carlo Lodge. Gino Sandri is also one of the biggest intelligence crooks there is around.

KC: OK. The CIA is completely run by the Vatican? Is that what you’re saying?

LZ: [inaudible] The priests are all very [inaudible]. It’s all about working together. It’s not about running each other. Each other in their own… you know, “We take care of this”, which is the spirit of mankind, give a couple of blessings, PLUS you need to make some charity every now and then, tax deductible if possible. You have the church, you have all the organizations, you give the charity. If you give good charity you are a good man and I give you blessings.

This is done also in the Russian Orthodox Church. Well since the fall of the Soviet Union you see these big priests going around with Mercedes, Limousine, whatever. Why? Because they are getting a bunch of money from these sinners of the Russian mafia who are sinning like heck, you know. They have six lovers, whatever; the wife’s there waiting, eh? But at the end of the day they give money to the church. That saves their… you know.

I saw other people, and also in Islam. I saw so many people. They give charity. OK. I respect that. But then what do you do in your daily life? Do you really respect the Koran? Do you really respect it? Rubbish. They don’t follow that. They just give the charity in order to save their arses with God -- if possible, huh? [Kerry laughs]

Bill Ryan: At the front of the Jesuit [inaudible] there is a reference, not to the SIV but the SVS and Luca Scantamburlo did not know what that was and hasn’t been able to find out. Do you know what that it? The SVS?

LZ: Servicio Vaticano Secreto [inaudible]

BR: Oh right, the secret service of the Vatican.